User talk:Rob 64

Welcome!

"My favourite Zelda game so far is the beautifully aberrant The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, due in part to its dark, bizarre themes and unique three-day-cycle system..."

"I guess I'm an unbearable pedant..."

your entire second paragraph

I- I think that we just became best friends.
Welcome to the Wiki, best bud! :P User:Ando/sig 03:28, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, hey there! Wait- what? Someone else thinks my being pedantic is a positive thing? Awesome!

Well, then... *cracks his knuckles* Time to get to work. Think of me as the friendly neighbourhood continuity guy. Rob 64 03:37, 28 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64

And hey, you know what's also awesome about Majora's Mask? The NPCs have lives. They have things to do; places to be, people to grumble at, and they're actually affected by what's happeing to the world. In Ocarina of Time, nobody seemed all that bothered that Ganondorf had practically razed the Castle Town, and filled it with undead monsters. In fact, they all moved to Kakariko and had no strong feelings either way (unless the reason why they repeat the same unhelpful phrases over and over again is because they've snapped, and just can't handle reality anymore). In Majora's Mask however, there's a definite feeling of despair, and you can really get involved with the NPCs, and in some cases turn their lives around. It's thought-provoking and emotional, especially the whole Anju-Kafei story, and the attitudes of the people who have given up (Mrs. Dotour, for example), and the way the game looks at death, sacrifice and rebirth. This is evident in the remarkably touching scenes with Darmani and Mikau, and Pamela's Dad (heh, or in fact any scene involving the Song of Healing), who are all in one way or another, freed.

...Sorry, this rant is a little uncalled for, but... ugh, such a beautifully-written game. Not to mention beautifully-presented. Why isn't it on the Virtual Console yet?! I have the N64 version and GCN Collector's Edition of course, but my Pseudo-OCD demands that I keep as many save files together as I can. If only they'd add every Zelda game to the VC (including Gameboy games); then they'd all be sitting neatly on a single SD card, in order of release.

...I really do have problems, don't I? Rob 64 02:40, 29 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64

YES. This is what I try to tell people. Most people that hate Majora's Mask are that way because of the time system, whereas that's really what makes the game. It allowed Nintendo to give the characters schedules which revealed their full personalities and back-stories. Majora's Mask's NPCs collectively have much more depth and character than any other Zelda game, and that's one of the things that makes it so amazing. That along with the constant feeling of despair, doom, and chaos, and you've got a recipe for the most amazing game ever.

As for why it's not on VC... Well, I don't know. They've got every other console game up there. Why not this one? Maybe they're waiting for some big milestone (like how they released Zelda II as the 100th game). User:Ando/sig

Another thing that's cool about the the repeated three-day cycle is the fact that Link really is alone in that respect; he's not going to receive any recognition for what he's doing, but he does it anyway. He could easily just head back to Hyrule if he wanted (though of course the game won't allow you, but he does in the end anyway), but he remains a true hero. In Ocarina of Time, and in fact most other games, his role feels forced. It's a hell of a lot less contrived in Majora's Mask.

The whole go-back-to-the-beginning-and-lose-everything-you've-got-in-your-pockets thing has never bothered me (especially thanks to that bank), and in fact, it's interesting to go back and realise that nobody remembers you, and that you then know exactly where everyone is going to go at any time, and you have more of an insight into their lives than anyone else. The only thing that annoys me about Majora's Mask -the only thing- is that by going back in time, various treasure chests are full once more, which interferes with my need to have collected everything. Still, this is something that under the circumstances I am always more than willing to forego.

Y'know, I wouldn't mind if they remade Majora's Mask. Not that it hasn't stood the test of time, it's just... imagine it with Twilight Princess graphics. *drools* I wouldn't care if they didn't change a thing. Rob 64 13:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64

Hey, maybe they'll wait and release it before The Legend of Zelda Wii, as a sort of hype? Like they did with Metroid Prime 3: Corruption and the Metroid Month (at least for you crazy Americans). Rob 64 14:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64

Timeline

Hey there. I'm not one for this timeline stuff, but I thought I'd point this out. TP takes place at least 100 years after OoT. Therefore, you might wanna rethink it. User:Seablue254/sig 13:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I myself would like to know how Majora's Mask takes place and THEN the timeline splits? User:Ando/sig 13:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I know that. I didn't say that it doesn't take place centuries after; simply that it takes place centuries after in the Young Link timeline. Remember, there are only seven years between the two timelines at first. When Young Link leaves for Termina, everything is back as it was at the beginning of Ocarina of Time with Ganondorf still free, who goes on to try to take over the Sacred Realm again (as shown in Twilight Princess). However, with Link in Termina, the Sages were forced to attempt to execute him. Twilight Princess follows.

From Link's adult timeline in Ocarina of Time, however, Link is no longer around (after sending himself back into the past at the end), and so, when Ganon breaks out from the Sacred Realm (as shown in The Wind Waker's prologue), the Goddesses flood Hyrule.

It makes the most sense this way, but of course it could easily be reversed; for example, evidence to suggest that The Wind Waker follows the Young Link timeline is also present- he leaves Hyrule, and so his Triforce of Courage shatters into eight, and of course, The Wind Waker's opening depicts him riding Epona into the Lost Woods (depicted only as a log, so this may not be accurate, but it clearly states that he left).

Then again, those stain glass windows in The Wind Waker depict the sages that we know, which implies that it follows the adult timeline (Link had to have awakened these sages), whereas in Twilight Princess there are a different six sages (whose origins are mentioned as Princess Zelda's tutors, so it is likely that in the absence of Saria, Darunia, Princess Ruto, Impa and Nabooru, the Royal Family appointed its own sages). Also, in The Wind Waker, they mention the Hero of Time specifically -he even has a statue in Hyrule Castle- which shows that his deeds were known. In Twilight Princess, however, there are only vague references to him, possibly started by Ocarina of Time's Zelda (since both she and Link retained their memories after its events).

It could follow either, but there is more evidence for having it this way around.

As for Majora's Mask, touché. That was a mistake; I always couple the two too closely. Rob 64 13:45, 28 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64

I've seen that theory before, it just doesn't make sense since Termina's fate does not effect that of Hyrule, they are parallel universes. Technically, the number of timelines MM splits into would be infinite anyway due to the fact you can go back in time as much as you'd like.

TWW in the child split doesn't make much sense, since according to the prologue, Ganondorf broke away from his seal of the Sacred Realm, but he wasn't sealed in the Sacred Realm in the Child Timeline, but the Adult one. In the Child split, he was sealed in the Twilight Realm. User:MARKOL/sig 9:45, 28 July 2008 (EST)

Exactly; the child split leads to Twilight Princess, and the child split features Majora's Mask, so all is well here now.

And of course, Termina's fate means nothing to the overall timeline, but it still happened. It is shown in The Wind Waker's prologue. No no, see that's the thing; Link goes back in time lots, but only ever within Hyrule, and then when he does it for the final time, leaving the Master Sword, he leaves for Termina. Rob 64 13:59, 28 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64

Actually, hang on- I'll post my detailed timeline soon. Rob 64 14:11, 28 July 2008 (UTC)Rob 64

Name

Umm... You seem to be signing your name on your posts like this: ~~~~Rob 64. (Without the period) That is not necessary. You don't have to type your actual username. It does that for you. All you need to type is this: ~~~~. (Without the period) I just thought I'd let you know.User:Mjr162006/sig 15:28, July 29, 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, The ~~~~ Both signs your name with a link to your user page ANd says the time. User:Seablue254/sig 15:35, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I've been editing several wikis and for several years, and nobody has ever pointed that out to me. Thanks. Rob 64 15:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

We care ;) User:Seablue254/sig 15:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Nice to know. Unlike those people over at Zeldapedia; I got banned from there for disagreeing with an admin. Can you believe that? He put it to me that Four Swords took place after Ocarina of Time. I combated this with Eiji Aonuma's statement to the contrary, and he wouldn't even listen. Said that he "hadn't even read my rant", and that I was lying (despite the link to the official interview I sent). Then he exploited his status as admin to ban me for believing in the wiki's philosophy. To be fair I was quite rude to him, and I would apologize wholeheartedly if I could, but he was just so insufferable. I've only met nice, reasonable people here so far, though. ^^ And of course, in most areas Zelda Wiki is more comprehensive than Zeldapedia (even nicer aesthetically). Rob 64 15:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Something like that happened at one of the forum site I used to go to. Some moderator was angry and decided to go ban hungry and banned many of the most intelligent users on there. I hate it when they do that sort of thing.User:MARKOL/sig12:13, 29 July 2008 (EST)

That happened to me as well. I proved a forum admin wrong, so he blocked me. It seems that so many admins out there do not hesitate to ban people that either prove them wrong or just disagree with them. We're lucky here. Our admins here are actually humans. They have consciences are all good people. Many other site's lack this. I didn't think that the admins were that bad. They seemed okay to me, save for one in particular (but that person seems regretful of his actions now.)
@Rob 64:
I could convince a Zeldapedia admin to come over here and talk to you about removing your ban over there. But that is about all I can do. Your actions over there were a little harsh. But their six-month block on your was way too long for what you did. I'd say the original block of 3 days would have been more than enough.User:Mjr162006/sig 16:43, July 29, 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, but I don't ever want to go there again. Besides, I don't want to be editing for two Zelda wikis; I'd rather concentrate on one, and as I say, this is certainly a more comprehensive one. It doesn't have as much of the unfounded guesswork as Zeldapedia does.

I was unimaginably rude and like I say, if I could I would apologise wholeheartedly, but I'm happier here. People here seem to listen to each other in debates, and don't shoot down other people. I'm sure they're mostly very nice people over there, but I'm not going to go there again. Y'know what's also annoying? Right after I was banned, they started discussing (on the same page) the similarities between OoT's Lake Hylia, and TP's Lake Hylia, something that I had already added to their article. It was like they were rubbing it in. Rob 64 16:53, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I believe I've shot down people here. Hopefully this won't happen to me again. Rob 64, if it makes you any happier, I've yelled at a Zeldapedia Admin before. I was pretty rude too. You're not the only one. Anyway, happy to have you here :) User:Seablue254/sig 17:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Happy to be here. Thanks. Rob 64 18:01, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

In fact, this shows just how aggressive I was to the particular Zeldapedia Admin. User:Seablue254/sig 12:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

That's nothing compared to how rude I was. Please, all of you, trust me when I say that I am generally not an angry person; I am polite and reasonable, but debating with someone arrogant enough not to listen to the other side of the argument really really annoys me. Nothing like this will ever happen here, I assure you. Rob 64 12:45, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

You had every right to, I have never seen someone that stubborn over anything. The link appears to be broken, the one for the interview, but whether it's real or not, the fact is everyone has the right to believe what they want and no one's authority has the right to tell people what to believe in.User:MARKOL/sig 9:10, 30 July 2008 (EST)

It's broken? Damn. I did bookmark it first, and I copied the URL, so I don't know why that is. Anyway, here it is: http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200405/N04.0517.1915.59084.htm

It's Game Informer. Very official. The admin, however, claimed that it was fake like that Project Deluge one. Didn't seem to realise that nobody would bother faking an article about something as minor as this. He was so arrogant too, saying "I would have heard about it". I think what Eiji said was fairly obvious anyway; most people know that TMC and FS take place before OoT, but this guy refused to listen simply because it would ruin his timeline of events, which is almost entirely wild guesswork. He's filled several story sections with said conjecture, and it's meant to be an encyclopaedia! A place of fact! Still, this was no excuse for my rudeness. Rob 64 13:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The admin over at Zeldapedia said that sounded a lot like the one about Deluge, but this one actually sounds a lot more convincing. One thing is if the URL was put in wrong, how could he have read the interview? Anyway, I think FS being before OoT makes some sense. If you look at FSA, Link revives Vaati by taking the Four Sword, thanks to Ganon. If FS happened after OoT, why wasn't Ganon around at that time, it just makes sense when you actually think about it.User:MARKOL/sig 9:34, 30 July 2008 (EST)

It makes sense that TMC and FS tookmplace before OoT (Ganon is never mentioned, and never existed at the time, and the reason Link is given a cap at the end of TMC is to explain where the tradition came from), but I'm not so sure about FSA. FSA must have happened after OoT (the Gerudo explain his ooT backstory in the game), but it also mentions that he is an "ancient demon reborn", which implies that is happens after he was killed in the original The Legend of Zelda (where he really is killed, since attempts are made to revive him in AoL, and OoA/OoS, so perhaps FSA happens after everything else, since Ganon finally has been revived in FSA? In many ways, FSA seems to reboot Ganon's story, which is why it either sits in a timeline of its own (another branch starting after FS, and instead of OoT, perhaps? That would explain the OoT story elements.) as many fans speculate, or spans the entire series (though no evidence is given in the other games to support this, which makes me suspect the former. In fact, I'm ammending my timeline. Rob 64 13:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I know FSA is after OoT, I was using it to show that FS should be before OoT. Any game with Ganon in it must happen after OoT, but'm not sure how FS can have a split since you do not travel through time.User:MARKOL/sig 10:06, 30 July 2008 (EST)

Just an alternate story. There's really no other adequate explanation, and it is clear that with FSA, they weren't really focussing on the story, but just wanted to use the success of FS, and build a bigger story to it. The whole backstory of Ganondorf flouting the Gerudo laws, and leaving the desert for the first time is exactly the same instance in both, but he uses two different ways to take over Hyrule depending on the game; in FSA he uses Vaati and the Dark Mirror, but in OoT he uses the Triforce. Rob 64 14:16, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

It's true, and it's situations like these that bring back my theory that some games are nothing but retelling of the same story.User:MARKOL/sig 10:27, 30 July 2008 (EST)

Well, the Legend of Zelda implies just that: a legend. I can imagine them all being told by an elderly robed man sitting in a chintz armchair, with a glass of fine port, a roaring fireplace, a dog called 'Spot' curled up on an ornate rug, and a semicircle of children sitting around him, waiting with baited breath, asking him "and what did Link do next, Grandpa?".

The reason some of the games seem similar -and the reason why the timelines have split- is because he's senile; he forgets what stories he's told, and doesn't realise that every time he uses the same protagonist, having forgotten about the previous stories. Rob 64 14:36, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

He was being arrogant. I can tell because the first thing that came to my mind while looking at his argument was *UPPERCUT!*. User:Seablue254/sig 19:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Shame it's not possible through the internet though, huh? Rob 64 20:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

You know it. User:Seablue254/sig 13:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Art

While this isn't exactly on-topic, I'm interested to know, is anyone here an artist? I don't mean that in a musical or theatrical sense, but more of a pen-and-paper deal? I don't belong to any art community (they're all terrible, and the most intelligent resposnses anyone ever receives are "Kawaii!" and "That is so good", usually riddled with bad grammar, and 'meow' added at the end). So, I was wondering if the artists among you would mind critiquing a few non-Zelda things? If nobody here draws, it's not such a big deal. I'd just be letting you know a little bit about who I am. Rob 64 16:20, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I guess I am, I enjoy drawing often and I do have my own DiviantART page though I don't update it much.User:MARKOL/sig12:23, 29 July 2008 (EST)

Care to share any of your stuff? I won't critique if you don't want me to, but I'll be interested to see what you have. As for me, the first thing to know is that I'm working on an idea for a webcomic based on Norse mythology. Here are several of my characters (I guess, though Vikings made them up originally), and it will give you a sense of my style of drawing. Anyone see any anatomy problems? Those are my biggest concern.

Anyway, this is where I am nowadays: http://learningextra.com/fyris/fafnir_the_aberration_block_small.jpg I know that mountain looks like a giant chicken nugget, but it's all block-colour at the moment. A soft-shading example: http://learningextra.com/fyris/fenrisulfr_the_hrodvitnir.jpg Everyone knows of Fenrir, of course. Secondary antagonist. A sketch: http://learningextra.com/fyris/heldyggvi.jpg Hel essentially fulfils the role of femme fatale. Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury...

This is where I started. Everything was way too anime back then: http://learningextra.com/fyris/skoll_harrow_adorable_hug.jpg Aww. Just look at what Hel was originally, back when I could barely paint digitally: http://learningextra.com/fyris/Hel%20Hath%20No%20Fury....jpg A demon-whore, basically. Thank the gods I learned to move away from that manga style.

What do you think (about the first three, of course)? Rob 64 16:38, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Those are awesome, I wish I had the time to color them on my computer.User:MARKOL/sig12:45, 29 July 2008 (EST)

I'm working on colouring Hel Dyygvi as we speak. I'm also animating a walk cycle for this thing: http://learningextra.com/fyris/fisch_mkii_a.jpg and you can see its left leg moving here: http://learningextra.com/fyris/leftleg.avi It's a robot with a fish inside. Like a walking aquarium with its own security.

So... anything of yours?

And is nobody else here artistic? Rob 64 16:58, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I do enjoy art at times. While I am nowhere near being good like MARKOL or anyone, I can do stuff like, "Hey, I can actually make this image a little better". I'm not one to start works of art (Whatever I do make is OK, I guess), but I may edit them. User:Seablue254/sig 17:56, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Why not show us some anyway? What have you done before?

So, is nobody here actually going to critique my work? MARKOL sounds like his work would be pretty good, but nobody is sharing anything of theirs. Rob 64 18:00, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

So far I've found this I have a lot of pages on my Photobucket page.User:MARKOL/sig15:30, 29 July 2008 (EST)

Awesome! Nice choice of character by the way. Nice level of detail, decent proportions. Cool. ^^ Anyone else have anything to share? Rob 64 19:37, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, like I've said, I don't really make art. Art isn't exactly MY thing. Like I said, I do edits. If you look at Matt's Zelda Wiki.org logo, I helped with that. He did most of it though. Maybe tomorrow i'll try making my own thing like that. User:Seablue254/sig 21:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

You should, they look great. When you say 'helped', what exactly did you help with? Rob 64 22:01, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

File:Zelda Wiki Logo.png

Here is the image. He gave me the Triforce and bird thing. I made all cool light rays. I isn't our official logo, yet. I am pleased with how it came out, mostly.User:Mjr162006/sig 22:28, July 29, 2008 (UTC)

Ah, cool. So you plan to make it the official logo eventually? Rob 64 22:30, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I hope it is one day. But it is too wide to be in the sidebar. Perhaps it could be on the main page. I never planned on it actually getting that far. I hope it does though.User:Mjr162006/sig 22:36, July 29, 2008 (UTC)

Eh, I guess I'll try to make a quick logo. Don't expect Michaelangelo's David, because I'm not that kind of person. Well, I guess music can play a part in creativity, so if anyone wants to know, i'll be listening to Fragile by Yes. User:Seablue254/sig 00:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I often listen to music when drawing, or writing for a particular scene for my in-the-works webcomic. Though my choices of music are often strange, they help set the scene; I once listened to Win One for the Reaper, the song played whenever a character dies in the American drama, Lost, for an hour when writing the death of one of my own. I also played Nightwish's Planet Hell for over an hour when designing Hel Dyggvi (shown in my artwork above). One of the best sources of inspiration, without a doubt. Rob 64 00:33, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I have to Learn how to change fonts and colors before I can show you. Thats all I'm missing. As far as music, I'm not really a lover of dark music; i listen to a lot more classic rock. Anyway, if I'm gone for a while, it means I left for the beach. User:Seablue254/sig 12:27, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I like the new symbol but i prefer the background as it is--Rapido 09:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I just want you to know, I finished my "Legend of Zelda" logo, but I want to wait for the image problem to be fixed before uploading it. User:Seablue254/sig 14:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

File:Seazeldalogo.png

How is this? I like it, probably the best image I ever made on my computer, considering everything else is done on my on 2 hands. User:Seablue254/sig 01:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Awesome. I quite like that. Certainly has a more Zelda-esque feel to it than the current one. Rob 64 01:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Really? I thought someone was going to come up to me and say: Gah!! The only real thing you did seems to be the Transparent Triforce!!! Besides, you totally ripped off that Zelda thing!!! It sucks!!! User:Seablue254/sig 01:21, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

You are also responsible for composition, and I was commenting on the overall image in its potential and intended use. I certainly think the Hylian Crest belongs in every logo; it represents the series best, is one of the most-recognised images, and has a nice regal quality about it. And of course, the official logo works best for the word 'Zelda', and is perhaps the least bland variation of it. The only thing I can fault this on is the layering of the bird and Triforce- perhaps switching the order in which they rest would look better? Rob 64 01:33, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I suppose I am. About the official logo, do you mean ZW's or Zelda's? We could possibly add Zelda Wiki.org somewhere, maybe next to the Zelda part, I personally like the gold Zelda logo and sword with the nice blue flash at the end of the sword. As for the layering of the Crest and Triforce, that's true, though I though making the Triforce semi-transparent would make a cool picture of the COMPLETE Crest and Triforce together, most images make the crest lose the head part, where it is substituted for the triforce, but I like the full bird being covered by a transparent triforce. Besides, It also allows for a more solid red and yellow cover, something that has (I believe) Never been done with a combination of crest and triforce, making it the first of it's kind. Anyways, I'm going to bed now, because it's 10 o'clock here, you silly Brits. See you tomorrow. User:Seablue254/sig 01:52, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

By 'official logo' I meant the Ocarina of Time Hylian shield thing. The OoT title, essentially. I like the blue flash too. True enough about the crest, but the way it is now, the areas of the bird shown inside the triangles are more garish than the rest of the creature, and it makes for a strange contrast. What if you kept the layering the same, but reduced the opacity of the Triforce, such that the image would only hint at the sacred relic? Actually, what if the crest were golden? That wouldn't create a contrast, but then again, you would lose the originality you've established with the colour mix. It's entirely up to you of course, but it's not like experimenting would make the logo you've already shown us disappear. I just mean more possibilities; a Graphic Designer considers all possible compositions, tones, colour arrangements, angles, typefaces (though they're irrelevant here) and sizes.

That's nothing, it's three in the morning over here. The only reason I'm still awake is because I butchered my sleeping patterns at the start of the summer holiday; I have about a month of lie-ins left. The US is about five or so hours behind the UK, afterall. Figured I might as well relax for the rest of August before university starts, but in the process became completely crepuscular. Rob 64 02:07, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, I'm not a graphic designer. What you see right now is pretty much what you'll get. I put it together as I liked and I'm not taking another 30 minutes to fix it. Sorry. User:Seablue254/sig 15:14, 3 August 2008 (UTC)