Talk:Vilia

It bugs me that people insist Vilia is male/a man. She's clearly a trans girl Her entire dialogue makes it very clear. See the dialogue:

 Vilia: Oh, my. What a lovely young lad you are. Do you need something from me? What's that? You've heard about a man who snuck into Gerudo Town? Oh, I don't know anything about him... Sorry I couldn't be more help

 You're... a man?
 Vilia: Oh, my! You sure say the funniest things, young man. Anyway, if you don't need anything, you should be off, then.
 Vilia: Well, well... you still haven't give up on your search for the man who snuck into Gerudo Town? I told you I didn't know anything. Do you always doubt someone's word?

Airplaneapril (talk) 12:26, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Pretending to be a woman does not mean transgender. If someone finds out he is a man, he will lose access to Gerudo Town. Link approaches him to illegally purchase women's clothing. It's like a black market transaction. If Vilia was a cocaine dealer, he would not admit to being one. Everyone believes Link is a woman while in the clothing, and treats him like one. It's nothing more than a disguise and a facade.

Regardless of all this, this is not how we operate at Zelda Wiki. There is no source explicitly saying he is transgender. There are plenty saying he is male however. Sorry, but we can't change this. Hylian pi (talk) 16:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

If there is no evidence she is female, then you must also disregard the evidence that she is hylian. There's more evidence she is female than there is that she is hylian. --Airplaneapril (talk) 00:45, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Well, you can actually tell that someone is Hylian just by looking at them. We have tons of unsourced Hylians on Zelda Wiki because they just look like humans but with pointed ears. It just helps to source when possible. It is reliable that the characters would be able to tell Vilia is Hylian by a quick glance, just as they can for Link, but not his gender (Link even gets yelled at by Ploka when he tries to tell her that he is Gerudo). In most cases in Zelda games, gender is apparent through appearance as well, but Vilia is a case which needed a source due to controversy. If you would like to prove that Vilia is female or not Hylian, please find sources that are not stated by in-game characters and we can change it. Until then, unfortunately there is nothing we can do, as we are using the best evidence that we have at the moment. Hylian pi (talk) 01:23, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Really a Hylian?

My question is, are we certain Vilia is actually a Hylian? I've encountered other players who assume he's a male Gerudo. While we can't verify that he's a Gerudo, are we able to verify he's a Hylian either? If we're merely assuming he's a Hylian, isn't that speculation? Perhaps his "Race" should be listed as "Unknown" until there's verification either way. - Dermotmacflann (talk) 07:53, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

There are many sources from characters referring to Vilia as a Hylian. A few examples:

"There was that pretty Hylian gal at the general store. It's unusual to see a Hylian girl dressed like a Gerudo..." - Robsten

"I saw a Hylian vai merchant at the inn before. She was wearing traditional Gerudo clothes, which caught my eye." - Ripp

"There's a Hylian vai who likes to relax on the roof. Though in the afternoon, it's probably too hot up there." - Shaillu

- Hylian pi (talk) 10:33, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

All right. :) - Dermotmacflann (talk) 18:10, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

No hope. These people only care about inaccurate and unreliable information as spoken by other characters not familiar with the character in question. They do this to promote their transphobic agenda that was settled a bit earlier (with the whole sheik thing). From what it looks like she isn't pure-blood Hylian but does contain Hylian traits. Ironically, these quotes, which are used to prove her Hylian status, somehow *don't* prove her gender? Really? This wiki is getting more and more trash every time I come here. As the speakers clearly state, she appears to be a Hylian Vai, like Link is. To really drive the point home, there's another quote "If you want to get more lady's clothing, come back anytime..." stating lady's clothes in general, not Gerudo Vai clothes. Vilia also identifies herself as female: ""Going shopping when you don't have any money... You're such a tease, toying with a lady's emotions like that..." Active denial she is male, active assertion she is female. Has women's clothes other than the vai set. Saying she isn't female or trans is legitimate transphobia. The result of all this? As characters have identified her (outside of the rumors of a 'man wearing women's clothes') are that she's a Hylian Vai, as stated earlier. Just like you can be mixed blood/ethnicity irl, this is likely the case for Vilia. --Airplaneapril (talk) 00:11, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

The Wiki understands your concern, but we assure you that we have nothing against women or people who are transgender. The game portrays Vilia as a man, so we archive that information. This is the unbiased approach. The whole basis of Vilia's character is that he is pretending to be a woman, so he has fooled everyone in order to gain entry to Gerudo Town. Normally, his access to the city would be illegal, but he uses this persona to get inside. This is explained through the quest log, which catalogs what is happening and is the source we use for Vilia's gender. I apologize if this may appear ethically wrong to you, but we cannot ignore what the game is telling us, no matter what we prefer Vilia to be. Thank you for contributing to Zelda Wiki and I hope you have a wonderful day. Hylian pi (talk) 00:56, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

This seems to be quite a hot topic, perhaps our most contentious for Breath of the Wild. I don't appreciate the rudeness but I do understand the concerns, so let me weigh in on it.

The premise we have for Sheik is that the persona of Sheik is canonically male, so we refer to Sheik with the same pronouns. Whether Vilia is trans or not, it appears the proper course of action is to treat the situation the same as Sheik's.

If Vilia is indeed trans, then the appropriate pronouns would be she. If Vilia is nothing more than a persona, the appropriate gender/pronouns would be (in order) whichever they use for themselves (by prevalence) followed by pronouns used in reference to them (by prevalence). I think the most prevalent would be she in either case, but that would require confirmation.

At the very least, if we are in the pursuit of presenting information as-is, we should have a Note template to specify that Vilia's gender is debated and that in X circumstance it's Y and in A circumstance it's B. TriforceTony (talk) 02:38, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Except there isn't even a debate. Literally every single character who has actually met her, identifies her as a Hylian Vai, and as a woman. The only time she is not referred in that way is by characters who have never met her, and indeed the quest log (which has you searching out for a man, not Vilia). I'll repeat it again. If you deny this as evidence of her gender identity, you must also deny it as evidence she is Hylian. I edited the article to use the exact same citation for her gender as was used for her race. If this is not a valid citation, please remove it from the identification of her as a hylian. She is not male in any stretch of the imagination. The quest and initial rumors that have you searching for a man, were debunked. In reality Link finds a trans woman who helps him. These are the events that actually play out. If you look at other quotes in the game, again, it shows the gerudo are accepting of those who present female, even if they are biologically male. This is the case for Vilia, and indeed it is the case for Link (who's presenting as a trans woman, despite having an undefined gender identity). If this were not the case, Link would be kicked out of Gerudo town on multiple occasions, but he is not. Where is the confusion here? There is none. It's plain and simple transphobia by the people who refuse to acknowledge that Vilia is a trans woman who helps Link. Some characters indeed misgender her, as they follow a rumor of a crossdressing man. The article should reflect that the rumors are not accurate to the person they're referring to. And indeed, this is acknowledged by the characters Link talks to along the quest. Anything else is simply incorrect and transphobic. If ZeldaWiki insists on being inaccurate, I will encourage people to use the Zelda Dungeon Wiki, or some other wiki that gets it right instead. The most accurate identification would be: Biologically male, identifies as female, identified as male within rumors and female by those who know her. Vilia dresses not to sneak in (trans women are clearly accepted), but to be female. However, she *does* help Link sneak in. --Airplaneapril (talk) 03:03, 25 August 2017 (UTC)