Talk:Shadow Dungeon

Adding and removing dungeons

I was wondering about two things:

1. Should Stone Tower Temple be counted as a shadow dungeon? It fits a lot of the requirements, i.e. undead/shadowy enemies, use of light in puzzles, etc.

2. Why is Forsaken Fortress on here? ~~Sir Real 21:39, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

1. Not really. The only undead enemies present are the two minibosses. Also, light puzzles aren't only seen in shadow dungeons (Spirit Temple is desert-themed and uses light puzzles as well). The Stone Tower Temple is far too lighthearted, and strongly contrasts the dark elements of the rest of Ikana.
2. Forsaken Fortress is a dark and gloomy place, also the base of operations for Ganon (didn't you say already in the article that these dungeons have that characteristic?). If anything, it's closer to the element than STT. --User:K2L/sig 17:54, 30 March 2011 (EDT)

I see what you mean about Forsaken Fortress, but what undead enemies were in Forsaken Fortress? The closest I can remember is Phantom Ganon. As for Stone Tower Temple, a couple other undead enemies do appear in Stone Tower, like Poes and ReDead(though ReDead only appear in the tower, not the temple). Also, what do you mean Stone Tower Temple is "lighthearted"? The place is the origin of the curse on Ikana, the source of the Ikanan peoples' suffering, and the music that plays there gives the place a feeling of despair, as opposed to the fear-instilling music that plays in the rest of Ikana(not counting Farewell to Gibdos, of course).~~Sir Real 21:23, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Floormasters, Miniblins and Moblins are the meat of Forsaken Fortress, you know. And really, can't you notice the strong contrast Stone Tower Temple has to the rest of Ikana? When one first plays Majora's Mask, one would expect the dungeon to have an atmosphere akin to that of the Shadow Temple, Kakariko Well, Earth Temple, .... c'mon, from Beneath the Well and Ancient Castle of Ikana which both appear in the game as well! Although the Stone Tower Temple is indeed the source of the evil in Ikana, it by no means reflects that evil whatsoever. This is what I mean by "lighthearted": If i didn't know this place was in Ikana, I would easily think this belonged anywhere else! This is also the same reason why I had to edit the dungeon page after I myself added the water, desert and fire element icons in the infobox template despite the temple having a bit of each element. --User:K2L/sig 18:40, 31 March 2011 (EDT)

First of all, I think the worst thing one can do when adding the Element template is overthink. Listing an element as a theme should not require justification to be understood; it should simply reflect the general feeling one gets from the dungeon, nothing more, nothing less. The element should be clearly defined if it's going to be listed. The Forsaken Fortress is dark, shadows are an important part of the area, and its mini-boss is a phantom. Therefore it is shadow themed. That's how I see it, anyways.

The Stone Tower is a tough call, though (obviously, or this conversation wouldn't be taking place). I don't believe the Stone Tower has any clearly defined element, but it does have some components of a light dungeon and a shadow dungeon. Perhaps that would justify having it listed as both a light and shadow themed dungeon, like for the Ancient Castle of Ikana? I think if we did put both elements, people would understand where we were coming from. — Hylian King ^[*] 19:28, 31 March 2011 (EDT)

It was not my intention to complicate this, Hylian King. The thing about Stone Tower Temple is that it hardly has elements of a dark dungeon. If you look at the sky when inside there, you will notice that it's not even having the eerily-cream color it has outside! It's fairly noticeable that the developers didn't intend the dungeon to be shadow-themed. The atmosphere is very far from being akin to that of the other shadow dungeons in the series. Also, it surprises me to see a Light element template in the Ikana Castle article. It should not be there (I didn't remove it back then because the user who edited the page provided a good rationate about the mini-dungeon's themes. But even then, the connotations of shadow are stronger than those of light in that place). --User:K2L/sig 19:41, 31 March 2011 (EDT)

After taking a step back, I realize it would perhaps be better to just leave things as is. Let's just go back to the basics: if an element isn't clearly defined, and its presence is as arguable as Shadow is for Stone Tower, it should not be included. — Hylian King ^[*] 21:28, 31 March 2011 (EDT)