Talk:Skull Kid: Difference between revisions

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I think that the Skull Kid from Majora's Mask is the same Skull Kid as the one Link gave the Skull Mask to, in Ocarina of Time. Maybe Skull Kid attacked the Happy Mask Salesman because he wanted one the masks he was carrying and was then drawn to the power of the Majora's Mask.  
== Few Issues with the OoT Skull Kid Article. ==
Link of Vey 3/7/08


:First off, use four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to sign your posts.<br>Yes I think that they are the same too. A lot of people do. But, unfortunately, there is no way to prove this. However, the statements in ''Majora's Mask'' made by the Skull Kid strongly suggest that they are one and the same. We may never know for sure, unless one of the developers comes out and says it.{{:User:Matt/sig|~}} <span style="color:#C0C0C0;">14:25, July 3, 2008 (UTC)</span>
First, the Skull Kid transformation can't be compared to Stalchildren because it's already been established that Stalchildren are cursed soldiers. Although, this is what I also thought I think the evidence is against it. Two, the 3DS version changes it from kids to Kokiri, I'll grab the quote but don't have any text dumps at the moment. This might help the confusion.. --[[User:Smighty|Smighty]] 09:49, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
:I propose we remove this entire "there is speculation" nonsense entirely. Speculation has no place in a Zelda Wiki article. [[User:Dekler|Dekler]] ([[User talk:Dekler|talk]]) 01:26, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
::I agree. This article references theories and speculation far more than appropriate. Tag it with Cleanup template? I'm not really in the mood to make such extensive changes to an article. [[User:Champion of Nayru|Champion of Nayru]] ([[User talk:Champion of Nayru|talk]]) 01:46, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Champion of Nayru


::I thought that it was pretty cut-and-dry, really. I mean, what more can you want? For him to just straight up say "You taught me Saria's Song :D :D :D"? Many things in the Zelda games are implied and accepted, and this is easily one of the most heavily-implied and impossible to disprove things I've seen yet. {{:User:Ando/sig}} 20:08, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
== Separate the character Skull Kid from the species Skull Kid. ==


:::Way back when, I took part in a debate on this issue on the Gamewinners.com Zelda forum. Just about everyone there was thoroughly convinced that the Majora's Mask Skull Kid was not the same one in ''Ocarina of Time''. At the time, uh, my debating skills were not up to par with how they are today. The debate dragged on for about two years. The few of us that thought that they were the same Skull Kid were beaten. Not by the other's sides logic, which was lacking, but because of the overwhelming number of people against us. Therefore, my side just fled from the battle, defeated. That debate made our little one here about "Midna Art" look like child's play in comparison. It was truly epic.{{:User:Matt/sig|~}} <span style="color:#C0C0C0;">20:32, July 3, 2008 (UTC)</span>
I suggest we split the article on the Skull Kid CHARACTER that appears in Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess off from this article, leaving this one to detail the race as a whole. Skull Kid the character is a major antagonist/protagonist in Majora's Mask, and also appears in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. I'd say three different games as appearances is enough to warrant a separate article, especially for such a significant character to the Child Timeline. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 21:27, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
:My sandbox is an idea of what I think the page should look like, actually. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 22:01, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
::Okay, I think the page is ready to be split. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 00:02, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
:::Move complete. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 00:17, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
::::To be frank, I don't see how this is much of an improvement. :/ The two pages have a lot of overlap and I feel having the information spread over two pages like that is more confusing to readers than anything.
::::Next time, could you please wait to see what others think about something before going ahead with it? You didn't give anyone the chance to have a say first and that's pretty important. It's a bummer if you spend time making a big change then find out the other editors don't like it and it ends up being undone. (Not saying that will necessarily be the case here, but it very well might be if the consensus is against the split). {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 02:06, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


What the...? What, were they using logic like "He might not have been talking about Saria's Song" or something equally... not... good ''(I'm tired and lacking a proper vocabulary)''? That's a pretty crazy argument, I wish I could have seen it. But I think that nowadays we pretty much all know that they're one and the same, yeah? {{:User:Ando/sig}} 20:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
:::::The only time Skull Kid has ever been more of a race than a character was in OoT. Personally I think that's just enough for one section, as every other appearance of Skull Kid has just been one, which even then, there's no telling whether the one in TP is the same one from OoT/MM. It just makes more sense all of them sharing an article. I have to agree though. To make a split, especially for a big and somewhat popular page, there would have to be a census before any effort is made. I also really think that the next time you want to propose a split or merge, that you suggest it before you go ahead with the sandbox. It would save a lot of time. {{:User:The Goron Moron/sig}} 02:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


:Pretty much. Link looking for Navi or not in the beginning of Majora's Mask cropped up a few times in the debate too. The side opposing me had the same view of that as they did for the Skull Kid. Even though the in-game evidence strongly suggested that both of those theories were true, they failed to use their brains and look at the logic. Dumb people. I didn't say much on Navi then because I felt that the Skull Kid being the same was the stronger of the two theories. I don't think that the debate even exists anymore. I don't think that Gamewinners keeps their old forum topics that long. It has been... five years since the debate ended, I think.{{:User:Matt/sig|~}} <span style="color:#C0C0C0;">20:49, July 3, 2008 (UTC)</sp
::::::I'll add that splitting may not be a bad idea, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. If anything, I think having an article specifically about Skull Kid in MM would be more suitable. It's justifiable by the fact that his role in MM is much larger than other games (and, consequently, the MM section is disproportionately big). Even though it's technically the same person as one of the Skull Kids in OoT (and possibly TP), that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be covered on the same page.
::::::But that's another can of worms, I suppose. {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 02:17, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::My apologies for splitting it without getting the A-OK. I just feel that considering that the Skull Kid from MM is basically a pretty major antagonist for most of the game, it deserves its own article. He IS rather significant to the Child Timeline, considering he's interacted with two out of the three Links in that timeline, if it is the same Skull Kid in TP as it is in OoT/MM, which odds are it is. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 02:24, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


::I've read the manga, and skullkid (or rather stalkid) acts a bit different. He has severe moodswings, more like MM stlkid than Oot stalkid... And it would make sense that navi was the one that he was looking for. After all, if a guilt-filled ball of light flew out the window but all else was well, "Hmm...I'm bored. I think I'll go looking for one of my friends...". Oh god, how could I be so stupid?? It could have been Saria, Kaepora Gaebora, even the cow that Malon put in front of his house...just as likely.--[[User:Eponasowner|Claire]] 21:29, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
:I still think if we're going to split the article, the new one should be only about Majora's Mask, for the reasons I mentioned. It's not really a question of what "deserves" an article based on in-game facts. What matters is that we present our information in a way that's clear and makes sense to our readers.
:In any case, please hold off on changing any links until we come to a group decision. {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 02:36, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


I'm almost certain he is one of the OoT Skull Kids because at the beginning of the game cutscene, he looks at you and says; "Huh, this guy. Well it shouldn't be a problem." That right there implies that he knows you kinda... I guess.[[User:NintenJoe231|NintenJoe231]] 03:09, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
::For things like this, especially articles of important characters, feedback is absolutely crucial. Also, it's a good idea to give it about a week before acting, as that gives people time to respond. (Silence is not consent.)
::I feel like this was a hasty decision and needs to be reverted and assessed before we go forward. As mentioned before, there is ''a lot'' of overlap, and that defeats the point of having two pages. This isn't the [[Talk:Skull Kid/Archive 1#Separate pages for the Skull Kid of Majora's Mask and of Twilight Princess|first time]] this has been attempted, and it was agreed that the pages should stay unified in that instance. {{:User:TriforceTony/sig}} 04:24, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
:::I believe we can definitely benefit from a split -- the TP and OoT appearances are basically anonymous generics, representative of the species, and can be safely covered here, while the MM Skull Kid is a strikingly individual character. I think the overlap can be fixed by removing the TP section from the Character page, and then toning down the OoT section to much briefer summaries of the Skull Kids that are met, maybe like a single sentence saying that the Skull Kid first met Link in the Lost Woods and did one of three sidequests with him. The non-canon appearances should be on the Character page only, as they are clearly cameos of the MM Skull Kid. Once that's done, the only overlap we have is that the OoT section from the tribe page will have a quick summary on the Character page, and the MM section from the character page will have a quick summary on the tribe page.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] ([[User talk:KrytenKoro|talk]]) 14:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
::::That makes an awful lot of sense. :) {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 21:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::I support Kryten's approach whole-heartedly. It was actually what I had in mind. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 21:13, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


Is it possible that the "fairy kid" the Skull Kid was referring to was actually the Termanian counterpart to Link, or even a Termanian Koriri? Granny's story makes it pretty clear that this Skull Kid is from Termina and has probably been there for a long time. [[User:Jimbo Jambo|Jimbo Jambo]] 17:17, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
::::::Great! In that case, we (the staff) think we shouldn't link to [[Skull Kid (Character)]] just yet, but keep working on it until it's complete. You can also work on the main Skull Kid page in your sandbox, and then afterwards if we all agree on it, we can put it all together and add all the links and stuff. :)
::::::For next time, just know that you can have more than one sandbox. And with a big article project like this, it's better to bring it to completion in the sandbox before publishing it on the wiki, rather than have an awkward in-between phase like this (especially if it's a highly read article). It's not a written rule, but it is good practice. We're planning on writing some editing guidelines about this kind of stuff soon so new editors like yourself aren't left in the dark. {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 21:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)


:True as that is, you've gotta remember that Skull Kid knows how to move between Hyrule and Termina. I mean, you technically START the game in Hyrule before falling into the portal to Termina. So I would say that while there may very well be a Terminan counterpart to Link that we don't know of, it's also still possible that Skull Kid visited the Lost Woods using the Termina / Hyrule portal. {{:User:Ando/sig}} 22:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
== New Split Consensus ==


::I has assumed the power of the mask allowed him to do that, but for all I know the portal had already been there for a long time. [[User:Jimbo Jambo|Jimbo Jambo]] 15:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
So after some consideration, I believe it would be good now that a new consensus be held on whether this page should be split. The last one was full of discussion and compromise making, making it harder to determine everyone's agreement on it. For that reason, I feel a new consensus should be made. For this consensus, please just add only your thoughts on the matter. Should this page be split and the Skull Kid from Majora's Mask get his own page?


My theorie is that there is only 2 skull kids:  The Skull Kid in Majora's Mask (the one that buys the skull mask from you supposedly) and the one you play the memory game with (the other one there is an illusion) [[User:ChPstudios|~Charlie P. ;)]] 00:14, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
I personally don't think so. Skull Kids have only appeared as a race in OoT, and every other appearance has been singular. It makes more sense to me that they share a page for that reason. As a race, there is not much to write about them. There is also no telling whether the Skull Kid in TP is the same as the one from OoT/MM, there's only theories on this, which we've been phasing out now. I can however see how a split might work, as the Skull Kid from MM ''is'' a major character. But I feel that keeping the page as is would be better off in the end. {{:User:The Goron Moron/sig}} 02:35, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


== Get lost, become.... ==
:I'm in favor, primarily because he's such a major character in the game in which he appears. Princess Hilda only appears in one game and is a Hylian (or the Lorule equivalent, that is), but we don't have here on the same page as "Hylian". She and Skull Kid I'd say are equally important.
:tl;dr I agree with the split idea.--I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 03:00, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


I thought the quote was that lost people would become a Stalfos. "You a stalfos, me a stalfos, everybody a stalfos..." that's from memory tho.{{:User:Axiomist/sig}} 02:50, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
::I have to pop in and say that ''A Link Between Worlds'' and ''Majora's Mask'' are '''''not''''' the same game, and we cannot treat them the same. There's little to say about the species to justify splitting it from the character(s), and to split would make it more difficult for the readers. "Splitting" Hilda from Hylian (as if that ever was a thing) wouldn't prove as a disservice to readers, as they can simply find what they're looking for by typing in "Hilda". We need to minimize the amount of times that we send readers on a goose chase to find the page they're looking for. {{:User:TriforceTony/sig}} 03:32, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


:I remember...actually, I think one of the Gossip Stones in the woods says that people who enter the woods without the guidance of a fairy turn into monsters. So I think the logic is if you don't have a fairy, you'll get lost, and then you'll turn into a monster. I can only imagine how that mushroom potion might have helped Grog avoid becoming a Stalfos - at least, that's what I gather it did, or was doing. Article needs more citations in any case. [[User:Jimbo Jambo|Jimbo Jambo]] 07:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
:::I support a split because the page, as written, unhelpfully conflates the MM Skull Kid as representative of the tribe as a whole; his "possessed by an ancient demon" image is even used as the lead image. The article as a whole seems very unsure on whether it should be focusing on the Skull Kids as a race, and noting when a representative from MM appears, or focusing on the specific Skull Kid and mentioning that "hey, I guess he has family but whatever". There's probably a good way to do a merged article, but I feel this article is very much not it, so I feel that the coverage we have ''now'' (which, on its own, ''is'' good material) would be better served by being sorted into separate articles. It's kind of like if...hmm. If there was an article on the Transformers Wiki about the concept of Optimus Primes as an archetype throughout the franchise's multiverse, but 90% of the article was about what the Shattered Glass Optimus (who is an evil twin of the archetype) got up to. Or maybe, an article on Pikachu throughout the Pokemon franchise, but it really only focuses on Ash's Pikachu (who is noted as a very unusual Pikachu), leading new readers to think that every Pikachu ''is'' (or at least acts like) Ash's Pikachu.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] ([[User talk:KrytenKoro|talk]]) 13:49, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


:: Good point. I was thinking that Hylians becom Stalfos and Kokri becon Skull Kids. Skull "KID"-- and Kokri Never grow::up.Hylians DO. and since Grog is  the only known person to have been turned into a Stalfo, it makes sense.Well, I just ::wanted to bring up my theory, sort of...But good point, I forgot about the fairy thing. [[User:Moshata|~Moshata, The Mistress~]] 15:53, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
::::Exactly. You summed it up better than I could, in a way. My idea on how the character Skull Kid's page would look is [[User:Darth Nightmaricus/Sandbox/Skull Kid (Character)|here]]. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 13:56, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


:::Navi also wonders if Skull Kids are what became of children who got lost in the woods. I would doubt they were Kokiri, but it would seem to imply that only children become Skull Kids, and thus, adults probably become Stalfos. Of course, Skull Kids and Stalfos are pretty different from one another, and it's hard to imagine a mid-ground between the two for people in between childhood and adulthood, but it's also kind of hard to imagine that there's a definite cut-off age where one loses the potential to become a Skull Kid and instead becomes a Stalfos — kids don't just ''poof'' turn into adults. [[User:Jimbo Jambo|Jimbo Jambo]] 20:08, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
I would also support this split. However, I am not for your sandbox version, Darth Nightmaricus. The character who is named Skull Kid only appears in MM as far as I am aware. The OoT appearance is only a tease of information, and does not hold a lot of weight to support the argument. Unless someone can provide more proof.


::::Well, also don't forget that in Japanese, Skull Kid is "Stalkid" which would imply that yes, those who get lost are turned into Stalfos, it's just that kids get turned into "Stalkids" and adults are turned into Stalfos.
To address the Skull Kid in TP, I suggest he stays on the Skull Kid Race article. He should then be put under a section called Notable Members, this could also include a small bit of info about the OoT Skull Kid that you give the Mask, and some info about the MM Skull Kid, with a link to the main article.


==Manga==
Also, Darth, please don't be so rude to add tl;dr to a person who has a different opinion then your own. This is generally unnecessary and is only negative input. You clearly read over Kyten's addition, even though it contained just as much if not more information.    --{{:User:Pixel/sig}} 19:54, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


Does someone want to add a section for the manga story revolving around the skull kid? {{:User:Alter/sig}} 19:41, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
:Um, the Skull Kid in OoT is confirmed to be the one in MM. The MM one even mentions that Link reminds him of "that fairy kid that taught him the song in the woods". So yeah, they're the same character. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 23:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
:If no one else wants to, I'll do it..[[User:Zelda nexgen|Zelda nexgen]]


==Skull kid's Flute==
::That is the tease of information I was referring to...  I'm generally neutral on the idea, so if that is enough information to go by, so be it. We might want some other opinions on this as well, specially if the split is going to be approved. --{{:User:Pixel/sig}} 00:29, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Instruments play a big role in the Legend of Zelda seris. Hence forth should we make a mini-article for it? Or, at the very least, a paragraph about it? -- [[User:Ember Incubus|Ember Incubus]] - 06:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
:::Can we use a Support/Oppose system for this decision, please? --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...[[User:Darth Nightmaricus|Darth Nightmaricus]] ([[User talk:Darth Nightmaricus|talk]]) 22:34, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
:Maybe a sentence or two about the continuity of the flute between games and its purpose, but I can't really see it going beyond that, especially since it is not a prominent instrument in the Zelda series. {{:User:Cipriano 119/sig}} 07:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)


::::Well, this is meant to be passed via ''consensus'', not vote. I wouldn't dismiss the discussion yet though. {{:User:TriforceTony/sig}} 23:34, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


== Common Enemy? ==
== {{HW|L}} Puppets ==
He's only thought twice (not counting OoT), and he appears in THREE games. Is that really a COMMON enemy???
:You're right! I've removed it from the template. Also, don't forget to sign Zelda nexgen. [[User:Jeangabin|Jeangabin]] 11:28, 14 July 2010 (UTC)


== Skull Kid Quantity Issue ==
On the official HWL site it has updated to show Phantom Ganon and Skull Kid. Interesting thing to note, [http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/zelda-3ds/img/chara_skullkid.jpg one new screenshot] shows the skull kid attacking enemies with the [[Puppet]] that the Skull Kid from ''Twilight Princess'' has. the screenshot shows hes even playing the Ocarina while the puppet is attacking, similarly to how the skull kid in TP uses his trumpet. I know this game isnt considered canon by the fandom at large, but I thought it was a bit of interesting info and wanted to share it.<br/>[[User:Ixbran|Ixbran]] ([[User talk:Ixbran|talk]]) 10:52, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
 
:That info, along with the rest of his moveset, should be added to the [[Skull Kid#Hyrule Warriors|HW series section]] of the Skull Kid page. {{:User:Chuck/sig}} 20:26, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
I tend to agree with Ando in that Skull Kid knows how to use the portal between Termina and Hyrule.  My best theory is that Skull Kid is a native of Termina, since it's indicated that was friends with the Giants.  Unless he befriended them and they left in something close to a matter of seconds, the suggsested implication is that the Skull Kid in question is of Termina.  Therefore, I wager he may have visited the Lost Woods at some point, probably repeatedly, shortly prior to the events of Ocarina of Time, where he became to some extend familiar to and with the nearby Kokiri inhabitants.  I agree that the indications that Link and he have met before (in Hyrule) is strong and would be extremely difficult, if at all possible, to refute. 
 
As another interesting thought, I seem to recall that the Skull Kid's pranks were initially a result of loneliness after the Giants' departure.  Perhaps that's what prompted him to visit Hyrule in the first place; a desire to find friendship. 
 
I further think that the Skull Kid present in Twilight Princess is the same one from Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time.  Firstly, there doesn't seem to be any indication that Skull Kid is anything close to 'living', therefore age becomes most likely irrelivant.  The fact that he plays Saria's Song seems to be a strong indication that they are one and the same.  It may also explain why he assists Link.  After all, I thought Skull Kid was supposed to dislike adults.  Perhaps the Twilight Princess incarnation of Link reminds him of the Link he met during the days of Ocarina of Time (and subsequently Majora's Mask) where the two did establish something of the beginings of a friendship by most appearances. 
 
As to whether or not there is a single Skull Kid, I'm less sure.  It might be, however, that there are skull kids and then THE Skull Kid, in a similar vein to the fact that King Zora is obviously not the sole Zora.  The Skull Kid who features prominently may be the leader (or even a random member of no particular societal significance) of the larger group of Skull Kids in general.
 
[[User:Ragnarok|Ragnarok]] 02:01, 6 January 2011 (EST)
 
==Separate pages for the Skull Kid of Majora's Mask and of Twilight Princess==
The Skull Kid page is a race page, like the Goron page or Zora page. It seems inconsistent to me that the Skull Kid of Majora's Mask and of Twilight Princess don't have their own pages like any other characters (especially for characters of such importance), like the Mogmas have their own pages and so on. If that's fine, I'll take care of them. [[User:Itachou|Itachou]] 08:57, 2 February 2012 (EST)
 
Well, it's true there were three Skull Kids, but one of them is the Skull Kid we know. He is the same person who appears in both the three games. As we all know, Skull Kid never ages, so he was able to return a century after the events of ''Majora's Mask'', now as a sage of the Lost Woods/Sacred Grove. I think a page that focus on the character is great, which implies him from both ''Ocarina of Time'', ''Majora's Mask'' and ''Twilight Princess''. Yes, I'll make the character page and change ''this'' page into an article about Skull Kid race.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 18:57, 13 February 2012 (EST)
 
Here it is: [[Skull Kid (character)]] It could be alot better if you could also help me improve the article too. I added Skull Kid's artwork from ''Majora's Mask'' since the game was more focused on the character where he was alot cooler too. ;) So, let's change ''this'' article.
 
== Split Created Redundancy ==
 
There is a lot of redundancy between the two pages now that this has been split. Usually, before splitting a page like this, there should be some discussion outside of a comment or two, but since the deed is done (and it may have been for the better) we want to leave it as is, but these two pages now require '''''substantial''''' reconciliation between them. So unless that ask is undertaken and completed, the action may be reversed. --[[User:Xizor|Xizor]] 23:16, 18 February 2012 (EST)
 
:I know we usually have to talk this over, but it would be a lot better to go and do it before arguing like I did. But it is quite sure that no other users mind about this since the pages got split like you said, and this article will be about the Skull Kid species like the [[Kokiri]] and others.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 23:48, 18 February 2012 (EST)
 
::Well honestly, we really do ask that you don't just go ahead and do this sort of thing in the future. It worked out this time, but this is an exception rather than the rule. Just like I said, make sure that the articles are both cleaned up to properly reflect this change you've made, because as they are right now, this is not the case. --[[User:Xizor|Xizor]] 00:59, 19 February 2012 (EST)
 
Well, that depends whether it is urgent or not...Alright then. I'll be more carefull. I'll also have to search for links that lead to the [[Skull Kid|Skull Kid race]] and change all the links concerning about the character into [[Skull Kid (character)|Skull Kid]].
 
:It's actually pretty urgent because otherwise we could easily merge the Skull Kid character and race pages since right now they are so similar. So yes, it is always advised that big changes like these are talked over instead of doing it without any consensus. --[[User:Dany36|Dany36]] 21:42, 19 February 2012 (EST)
::Edit: my bad, I see you already did most of the fixing. Good job on getting all of those disambiguation links! --[[User:Dany36|Dany36]] 00:05, 20 February 2012 (EST)
 
:Thanks Dany. :)--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 12:09, 20 February 2012 (EST)
 
I'm going to be the bad guy and say that the split was unnecessary, and may warrant a re-merge. Look at the sections of Skull Kid (race). Only Ocarina of Time has any useful data, while Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess are links to the other article. The OOT section of both articles is nearly identical, along with trivia, gallery, etc. For Skull kid (character), the only new info is found in MM and TP. I think most users would like to have all the information easily accessible, but this split defeats that purpose. {{:User:Abdullah/sig}} 13:11, 20 February 2012 (EST)
 
:Seems that the pages still need lot of work, don't they...--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 13:35, 20 February 2012 (EST)
 
::Weeelll, I think the main problem here was that this split was done without any prior agreement on what should have been done. Let's see what other folks have to say, whether they should stay split or be merged back together. --[[User:Dany36|Dany36]] 13:57, 20 February 2012 (EST)
:::Frankly, I think the split was unnecessary. There really isn't much to the "Skull Kid race" and the information was already readily available before the split. I think it should just be merged back together. {{:User:Pakkun/sig}} 14:27, 20 February 2012 (EST)
 
Stop right there. Don't ask anything. They haven't said a word yet, but it seems very well that it's okay as it is. After all, an article about the species where it also talks about a character is not good. So it must be split like you guys suggested before.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 15:09, 20 February 2012 (EST)
 
:I'm sorry Ludwig, but I don't remember us reaching a consensus on this. In fact, I agree with Abdullah and Pakkun on this one. It doesn't make sense to have information about a single person on two different articles (Skull Kid from MM is one of the Skull Kids from OOT). Yeah, it would be nice to give the MM Skull Kid more exposure instead of sticking him between two sections about less-important counterparts, but I still wouldn't say that's reason enough to split the article. {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 18:13, 22 February 2012 (EST)
 
Guys, it's really annoying that users like you are always against one of my edits, especially in the other wiki. And it's reasonable enough to be splitted into two, and there are other reasons too why it should be splitted into two. This article is gonna look much more like a real article that talks about races, especially the character's too need some more changes and improvements for now. Now I want to ask you this; since you guys wanted it to be splitted into two like I do, why one of you guys changed your opinions on the split? It still seems very well that much users don't mind about this.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 19:54, 22 February 2012 (EST)
 
::''Don't ask anything. They haven't said a word yet, but it seems very well that it's okay as it is. After all, an article about the species where it also talks about a character is not good. So it must be split like you guys suggested before.''
 
::I'm not sure you understand how wikis work around here... Usually, for small changes, a consensus isn't really needed, but for a big change like this, there MUST be a discussion about it. Just because ''one'' member suggested that there be a split (so it's not "you guys suggested" ;p ), to which you only agreed, doesn't mean that no one else cares and that you should go ahead and do it. I hope I'm not trying to sound like I'm scolding you, but this is how things work around the wiki! Anyway, no one here changed their minds: Xizor didn't really have an opinion on it, and I don't either. Three members have raised their concerns about the split being unnecessary, so we will have to continue waiting for other users' input on this before we can reach a decision of whether or not to merge this back together.
 
::I hope this doesn't discourage you from continuing to edit the wiki, but I hope you understand that the wiki is a collaborative process and not all of it can be built by one person alone. :) --[[User:Dany36|Dany36]] 20:38, 22 February 2012 (EST)
 
Actually, you didn't sound like you scolded me, you just did it. o.o' And I'm a bit discouraged. I admit, I ''was'' hasty for the two articles to be split since they don't fit well, unless the other one was a species. But for something such as splitting these two up, it should be okay (despite the name of the character. Otherwise it really should have been really easy and why it'll be so obvious why it should be splitted up). But I'm sorry. Honestly, I know the wiki's rules. I just got carried away.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 21:21, 22 February 2012 (EST)
 
:Don't worry, man. We all make mistakes. I'm sure some of our staff have done the same thing before. Just learn from your mistake and discuss large changes first. Anyway, do you give us permission to merge the two articles? {{:User:Abdullah/sig}} 12:46, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
You ask that to me, sorry but no.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 14:57, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
Gonna weigh in here; there was no need for a split. I can't think of any reason for a split. Skull Kids simply aren't common enough. It would be kind of like splitting [[Vire]] into two pages because the one in ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons|Oracle of Seasons]]'' and ''[[The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages|Oracle of Ages]]'' is a single recurring enemy while other Vires are common (although I suppose there's an argument for splitting as there is a difference between enemy and boss templates, but thats another issue I suppose). I know Skull Kid is a more prominent villain, but it was only in one game. Its just not necessary, I can't think of any other pages where we do the same thing. Stick everything into the single "Skull Kid" page, I say. {{:User:Fizzle/sig}} 15:18, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
The only game where more than a single Skull Kid appeared was in ''Ocarina of Time'' when the notable character appeared more than three games himself, while the Vire you're talking about appeared in two linked games which makes them as one as the ''Oracle'' series. If that's the case, the split wins and the merge loses since the races do not have much more important things to talk about after ''Ocarina of Time''.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 15:42, 23 February 2012 (EST)
:I am not following your logic in the slightest here. The "notable character" is neither confirmed for definite to be the same one as in Ocarina of Time (arguably Link never taught a song to any of the Skull Kids in OoT, like the one in MM claims), and certainly not the same one as in Twilight Princess. You're just assuming that is the case. And even if he WAS, that still doesn't make either side worthy of being split, especially as its confusing to have two articles with the exact same name both referring to Skull Kid as a race and a character when he is both.
:Besides, if we go down this route, then what's stopping us from splitting [[Link]] into multiple pages for each individual Link? It sets a bad precendant. {{:User:Fizzle/sig}} 16:03, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
I'm going to formally close this discussion. Before we lost edits due to the server change, [[User:Noble Wrot|Noble Wrot]] said he opposed the split, and [[User:Ganondorfdude11|Ganondorfdude11]] said that if we keep the split, we have to improve the pages (or something to that effect). In conclusion, we have 5 people opposing the split and 1 person supporting it. Majority rules that the pages be merged. It's a shame that you'll lose all your work, but that's why we discuss issues before implementing them. Please don't think this means that we're against you. {{:User:Abdullah/sig}} 16:47, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
==Skull Kid's need of improvements==
If we talked about this before splitting this up, you would disagree, wouldn't you? I know you guys were upset because I splitted it up into two without having a discussion, and merging them back will calm down one of the Wiki's users' madness. Even though one of you denies that. And if I improve both articles, there would be more possibilities that you wouldn't merge them back. Which means, one of you ''are'' against me. Now, that's the fourteenth time users have to disagree with me and my edits in the Wikia.
 
Let's take a deep breath...You know what, I'll tell you this to make us all satisfied, I could turn this article into a mixed article that talks more about the character and his kind. So, what do you say?--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 17:40, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
:I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you mean about mixed article. Do you mean dividing it into one section about the Skull Kid in MM, and one section for the other Skull Kids?
 
:And I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I hope you realize that this is nothing personal; no one is against you, nor would anyone have any reason to be. Abdullah, Pakkun, Dany, Noble Wrot, Fizzle, and myself have all been editors at the wiki for a fairly long time. I assure you, we are only trying to do what is best for the wiki, nothing more, nothing less. Believe me, we would never revert someone's edits without reason or to spite a user. It's just sometimes people have different views about what is best for the wiki, that's just the way it goes. Majority rules, and that goes for everyone, whether it's a new user or a long-time administrator.
 
:If you feel like your edits were wrongly reverted, please feel free to ask any of the [[Zelda Wiki:Administrators/Staff|Zelda Wiki Staff]] about it such as Abdullah, Pakkun, Dany, or myself, and we'll gladly discuss why the edits were reverted. {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 18:38, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
I can't discuss about the splitting anymore. Sorry. And thanks for what you said for me Hylian King. So, do you think that it'll be better to talk more about both the character and his species origin? That's what I meant by "mixed article" by the way.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 07:36, 24 February 2012 (EST)
 
:I think I should just do it already...if we don't need to discuss it. But if we do, where we should we talk about it since you guys don't answer in this talk page anymore?--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 19:39, 25 February 2012 (EST)
 
::If you really want to do this, I would strongly recommend writing a draft in the [[Zelda Wiki:Sandbox|Zelda Wiki Sandbox]], or make your own sandbox ([[User:Prince Ludwig/Sandbox]]) and show us when it's ready. As you know, every major change to the wiki has to have the support of the majority, so there's no guarantees that it will be accepted. But you are more than welcome to try if you really believe in this. {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 20:48, 25 February 2012 (EST)
 
That means I have to show what the Skull Kid article would look like in my Sandbox before editing. Alright I will.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 23:58, 25 February 2012 (EST)
 
:There it is. Look at my [[User:Prince Ludwig/Sandbox|Sandbox]]. So, what do you think? It talks more about both the character and the species of the Skull Kid, except the character infobox (which is the Template:UserCharacter). Maybe it is not "mixed" enough, but I did my best.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 02:13, 26 February 2012 (EST)
 
::Yes, and the effort is much appreciated. I'm not going to lie to you, your work is going to need a lot of polishing before any of it can be used in this article. But, the more I think about it, the more I start to think you're on to something here, especially with that "background" section. With his own background, unique character traits, and important role in the plot, MM Skull Kid has great potential as a stand-alone article that we really aren't living up to right now. You know what? Maybe a split (just for ''Majora's Mask'') would be something to consider after all. {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 19:34, 27 February 2012 (EST)
 
There's about two sections that talk about his background story centuries before his appearance in a game; the background and the theory about the Hero of Time and his descendant. But I'm still working on it to be perfect too.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 00:57, 28 February 2012 (EST)
 
== Splitting MM Skull Kid ==
 
Despite the fact that a split was just rejected (I myself was against the split), I'm going to suggest that we dedicate an article specifically to the MM Skull Kid. I've always had this feeling, even when I voted against the last split, that there was something wrong with the way we dealt with Skull Kid on this wiki. The previous split was rushed and as a result I think a lot of people were turned off to the idea, but I think a split is something that we should seriously consider.
 
It makes sense to have the Skull Kids from ''Ocarina of Time'' and ''Twilight Princess'' on the same page: their roles are about equal, they have little dialogue if at all, and as a result we don't know much about them except for their appearance. However, it feels wrong to stick the Skull Kid in MM, a major, fully-developed character, between the OOT and TP sections. It seems like this part of the article has been constrained so that it could fit in one section: it's just as long if not shorter than the OOT and TP sections, when really it should be much, much more developed. MM Skull Kid has a full personality, character traits, background, and a huge role in the plot. He's basically the main antagonist of ''Majora's Mask''; Majora only comes into play right at the end.
 
For that reason, I think the Skull Kid in MM deserves his own article. He was given the spotlight in ''Majora's Mask'', it makes sense for us to do the same. {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 19:40, 27 February 2012 (EST)
 
:Unless we can still talk about the character being in OOT and TP, yes, it's a great idea. Took me long enmough to log in again because of that Cookie issue.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 00:53, 28 February 2012 (EST)
 
::Hmm...I see your point. The only problem I had with the previous split was that it was done so hastily without any discussion, but like I said in the previous section, I didn't really have a problem with it. :P So for splitting the MM Skull Kid, I agree. :[ --[[User:Dany36|Dany36]] 12:05, 28 February 2012 (EST)
 
So, can you show us how the article would look like in your [[User:Hylian King/Sandbox|Sandbox]] sometime? I'd like to see it.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 15:04, 1 March 2012 (EST)
 
:I'm also all for an article dedicated to Skull Kid, the character. No one will deny that as an individual he deserves to be recognized as distinct from the race of Skull Kids, as per reasons mentioned by Hylian King above. Just throwing in my two rupees. {{:User:Embyr 75/sig}} 20:44, 1 March 2012 (EST)
 
::And me too...''formerly''...*sniff*--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 21:43, 1 March 2012 (EST)
 
I looked at your current progression of the split article. But let me say something before you keep up.
 
He is supposed to be the Skull Kid notable character, right? I assure you this isn't acceptable enough to say "it was implied to be the same person" or "it may be proven to be the same person from the other game" or something like that. Stating this kinda stuff about OOT and MM Skull Kid is getting old, it's proven two times to be the same person in the game. You can write it in the Theory section and write down something really special too (since stating that possibility alone is not good enough), but it'd be useless. There's no way the developers would say that they are different person. Guys, you should know, the Skull Kid was an interesting character to begin with, so ''Majora's Mask'' made him alot more interesting and made a background story of him that toke place several hundreds of years during the '''Unified Timeline''' before ''Ocarina of Time''. As for ''Twilight Princess'', it should be written down in the character article too. If yes, we shouldn't write that he could be the same Skull Kid (though I'm so sure it ''is'' him) in the ''Twilight Princess'' section (you can also write that he helps the Hero of Time's descendant, but it's as if the Skull Kid is the same person), but in the Theory section where there has to have something written that could prove to be the same person, like in my [[User:Prince Ludwig/Sandbox|Sandbox]].--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 19:58, 5 March 2012 (EST)
 
:Duly noted. However, keep in mind that what I wrote down was just the beginning of a draft, and an early one at that. Secondly, unless there's something in Hyrule Historia about this, I've yet to see any proof that the Skull Kid in TP is the same as the others.
:OK, let's assume they're all the same Skull Kid. The fact of the matter is there's still way more to say about his MM appearance than any other appearance, which is why I'm saying his <u>''Majora's Mask''</u> appearance deserves it's own article. If we throw in stuff about the OOT Skull Kid and the TP Skull Kid, we'd just be repeating what was done earlier.
:Regardless of whether they're the same character, the Skull Kid's various appearances are very loosely connected. It would be impossible to tie them all together without a significant amount of theorizing and conjectures (unless Hyrule Historia can shed some light on this). What I'm saying is we should stick to what is easily seen and not over-think this one; keep Skull Kid's appearances apart and make no more connections between them than Nintendo did themselves (which they barely did besides a quick mention at the end of MM). The way I see it, only the MM part has enough potential to stand alone as an article. Otherwise I would have never suggested the split. {{:User:Hylian King/sig}} 22:20, 5 March 2012 (EST)
 
::HK, this is a great idea. The only caveat here is that the article would have to be named "Skull Kid (Majora's Mask)", which leaves the general Skull Kid article to be named... what? I totally agree that this character deserves its own article, but we also must make sure that a clear distinction is made for those who haven't played ''Majora's Mask'' - on the general Skull Kid page, there should be one of those article header disclaimers redirecting those who want info on the MM character. And yikes on the self-similarity between the incarnations of Skull Kids - as far as I've seen, there isn't any tie between any Skull Kid in any game with the one from MM, other than the obvious (same race). Speculation like that would blur the credibility of the split - it would have readers question "Why were the two articles split off if ZW claims that certain incarnations of Skull Kids are the same being?" :) {{:User:Cipriano/sig}} 22:59, 5 March 2012 (EST)
 
:::'''Skull Kid (Race)''' and/or '''Skull Kid (Character)'''? Skull Kids are a race. There are multiple Skull Kids in OOT (the one you teach Saria's Song, and the two who play the [[Musical Session]] with you, for example). The Skull Kid of MM is a character (of that race). I don't think we'll have difficulty establishing this.
 
:::Also, Cip: "as far as I've seen, there isn't any tie between any Skull Kid in any game with the one from MM" -- I don't see any relation to the TP version, but as for the OOT/MM... REFS: "Eh-hee-hee...You have the same smell as the [[Kokiri|fairy kid]] who taught me [[Saria's Song|that song]] in the [[Lost Woods|woods]]..." and the clip at the end which shows the Skull Kid's crude depiction of he and Link standing together, followed by a brief, very clear Saria's Song tune. Also, when Tatl and Tael first scare Link off Epona in the into, he says, "Huh? This guy... ...Well, that shouldn't be a problem," indicating he recognized him. The OOT and MM Skull Kids are, I'm pretty sure, meant to be the same. This is all mostly mentioned in the article as it currently is. Did I misunderstand your comment? {{:User:Embyr 75/sig}} 01:10, 6 March 2012 (EST)
 
That's why I said it was proven twice. They are meant to be the same person like you said Embyr. After all, the arguments on whether he is the same or not are getting old... As for ''Twilight Princess'', I feel something really familiar with the '''{{Name|Sage of the Sacred Grove}}''', I still feel that he ''is'' that childhood friend. It ''is'' the Skull Kid.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 02:32, 8 March 2012 (EST)
 
:Mmm, that sounds a bit too speculative to endorse in an article, too me, interesting an idea as it is. {{:User:Embyr 75/sig}} 11:25, 8 March 2012 (EST)
 
Thought I'd throw in my two cents on this issue. I am going to agree with the decision to trash the split. That would leave the race page very small and insignificant since it would only really relate to OoT, and the Skull Kids in that were very minor characters. However, perhaps the Skull Kids of MM and TP (because the idea that they are the same is just speculation, though perhaps it could be mentioned as a trivia point or something) could each have their own sections within this article rather than separate articles. Seems like an appropriate middle ground. Thoughts? -[[User:EzloSpirit|EzloSpirit]] 15:51, 15 March 2012 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 00:11, 23 October 2022

Archives of Talk:Skull Kid

Few Issues with the OoT Skull Kid Article.

Latest comment: 8 November 20133 comments3 people in discussion

First, the Skull Kid transformation can't be compared to Stalchildren because it's already been established that Stalchildren are cursed soldiers. Although, this is what I also thought I think the evidence is against it. Two, the 3DS version changes it from kids to Kokiri, I'll grab the quote but don't have any text dumps at the moment. This might help the confusion.. --Smighty 09:49, 24 April 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I propose we remove this entire "there is speculation" nonsense entirely. Speculation has no place in a Zelda Wiki article. Dekler (talk) 01:26, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree. This article references theories and speculation far more than appropriate. Tag it with Cleanup template? I'm not really in the mood to make such extensive changes to an article. Champion of Nayru (talk) 01:46, 8 November 2013 (UTC)Champion of NayruReply[reply]

Separate the character Skull Kid from the species Skull Kid.

Latest comment: 27 April 201514 comments5 people in discussion

I suggest we split the article on the Skull Kid CHARACTER that appears in Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess off from this article, leaving this one to detail the race as a whole. Skull Kid the character is a major antagonist/protagonist in Majora's Mask, and also appears in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess. I'd say three different games as appearances is enough to warrant a separate article, especially for such a significant character to the Child Timeline. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 21:27, 26 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My sandbox is an idea of what I think the page should look like, actually. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 22:01, 26 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay, I think the page is ready to be split. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 00:02, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Move complete. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 00:17, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
To be frank, I don't see how this is much of an improvement. :/ The two pages have a lot of overlap and I feel having the information spread over two pages like that is more confusing to readers than anything.
Next time, could you please wait to see what others think about something before going ahead with it? You didn't give anyone the chance to have a say first and that's pretty important. It's a bummer if you spend time making a big change then find out the other editors don't like it and it ends up being undone. (Not saying that will necessarily be the case here, but it very well might be if the consensus is against the split). — Hylian King [*] 02:06, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The only time Skull Kid has ever been more of a race than a character was in OoT. Personally I think that's just enough for one section, as every other appearance of Skull Kid has just been one, which even then, there's no telling whether the one in TP is the same one from OoT/MM. It just makes more sense all of them sharing an article. I have to agree though. To make a split, especially for a big and somewhat popular page, there would have to be a census before any effort is made. I also really think that the next time you want to propose a split or merge, that you suggest it before you go ahead with the sandbox. It would save a lot of time. - Midoro (T C) 02:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'll add that splitting may not be a bad idea, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. If anything, I think having an article specifically about Skull Kid in MM would be more suitable. It's justifiable by the fact that his role in MM is much larger than other games (and, consequently, the MM section is disproportionately big). Even though it's technically the same person as one of the Skull Kids in OoT (and possibly TP), that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be covered on the same page.
But that's another can of worms, I suppose. — Hylian King [*] 02:17, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My apologies for splitting it without getting the A-OK. I just feel that considering that the Skull Kid from MM is basically a pretty major antagonist for most of the game, it deserves its own article. He IS rather significant to the Child Timeline, considering he's interacted with two out of the three Links in that timeline, if it is the same Skull Kid in TP as it is in OoT/MM, which odds are it is. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 02:24, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I still think if we're going to split the article, the new one should be only about Majora's Mask, for the reasons I mentioned. It's not really a question of what "deserves" an article based on in-game facts. What matters is that we present our information in a way that's clear and makes sense to our readers.
In any case, please hold off on changing any links until we come to a group decision. — Hylian King [*] 02:36, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
For things like this, especially articles of important characters, feedback is absolutely crucial. Also, it's a good idea to give it about a week before acting, as that gives people time to respond. (Silence is not consent.)
I feel like this was a hasty decision and needs to be reverted and assessed before we go forward. As mentioned before, there is a lot of overlap, and that defeats the point of having two pages. This isn't the first time this has been attempted, and it was agreed that the pages should stay unified in that instance. - TonyT S C 04:24, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I believe we can definitely benefit from a split -- the TP and OoT appearances are basically anonymous generics, representative of the species, and can be safely covered here, while the MM Skull Kid is a strikingly individual character. I think the overlap can be fixed by removing the TP section from the Character page, and then toning down the OoT section to much briefer summaries of the Skull Kids that are met, maybe like a single sentence saying that the Skull Kid first met Link in the Lost Woods and did one of three sidequests with him. The non-canon appearances should be on the Character page only, as they are clearly cameos of the MM Skull Kid. Once that's done, the only overlap we have is that the OoT section from the tribe page will have a quick summary on the Character page, and the MM section from the character page will have a quick summary on the tribe page.KrytenKoro (talk) 14:34, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That makes an awful lot of sense. :) — Hylian King [*] 21:12, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I support Kryten's approach whole-heartedly. It was actually what I had in mind. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 21:13, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Great! In that case, we (the staff) think we shouldn't link to Skull Kid (Character) just yet, but keep working on it until it's complete. You can also work on the main Skull Kid page in your sandbox, and then afterwards if we all agree on it, we can put it all together and add all the links and stuff. :)
For next time, just know that you can have more than one sandbox. And with a big article project like this, it's better to bring it to completion in the sandbox before publishing it on the wiki, rather than have an awkward in-between phase like this (especially if it's a highly read article). It's not a written rule, but it is good practice. We're planning on writing some editing guidelines about this kind of stuff soon so new editors like yourself aren't left in the dark. — Hylian King [*] 21:35, 27 April 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Split Consensus

Latest comment: 22 May 201510 comments5 people in discussion

So after some consideration, I believe it would be good now that a new consensus be held on whether this page should be split. The last one was full of discussion and compromise making, making it harder to determine everyone's agreement on it. For that reason, I feel a new consensus should be made. For this consensus, please just add only your thoughts on the matter. Should this page be split and the Skull Kid from Majora's Mask get his own page?

I personally don't think so. Skull Kids have only appeared as a race in OoT, and every other appearance has been singular. It makes more sense to me that they share a page for that reason. As a race, there is not much to write about them. There is also no telling whether the Skull Kid in TP is the same as the one from OoT/MM, there's only theories on this, which we've been phasing out now. I can however see how a split might work, as the Skull Kid from MM is a major character. But I feel that keeping the page as is would be better off in the end. - Midoro (T C) 02:35, 18 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm in favor, primarily because he's such a major character in the game in which he appears. Princess Hilda only appears in one game and is a Hylian (or the Lorule equivalent, that is), but we don't have here on the same page as "Hylian". She and Skull Kid I'd say are equally important.
tl;dr I agree with the split idea.--I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 03:00, 18 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have to pop in and say that A Link Between Worlds and Majora's Mask are not the same game, and we cannot treat them the same. There's little to say about the species to justify splitting it from the character(s), and to split would make it more difficult for the readers. "Splitting" Hilda from Hylian (as if that ever was a thing) wouldn't prove as a disservice to readers, as they can simply find what they're looking for by typing in "Hilda". We need to minimize the amount of times that we send readers on a goose chase to find the page they're looking for. - TonyT S C 03:32, 18 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I support a split because the page, as written, unhelpfully conflates the MM Skull Kid as representative of the tribe as a whole; his "possessed by an ancient demon" image is even used as the lead image. The article as a whole seems very unsure on whether it should be focusing on the Skull Kids as a race, and noting when a representative from MM appears, or focusing on the specific Skull Kid and mentioning that "hey, I guess he has family but whatever". There's probably a good way to do a merged article, but I feel this article is very much not it, so I feel that the coverage we have now (which, on its own, is good material) would be better served by being sorted into separate articles. It's kind of like if...hmm. If there was an article on the Transformers Wiki about the concept of Optimus Primes as an archetype throughout the franchise's multiverse, but 90% of the article was about what the Shattered Glass Optimus (who is an evil twin of the archetype) got up to. Or maybe, an article on Pikachu throughout the Pokemon franchise, but it really only focuses on Ash's Pikachu (who is noted as a very unusual Pikachu), leading new readers to think that every Pikachu is (or at least acts like) Ash's Pikachu.KrytenKoro (talk) 13:49, 18 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Exactly. You summed it up better than I could, in a way. My idea on how the character Skull Kid's page would look is here. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 13:56, 18 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would also support this split. However, I am not for your sandbox version, Darth Nightmaricus. The character who is named Skull Kid only appears in MM as far as I am aware. The OoT appearance is only a tease of information, and does not hold a lot of weight to support the argument. Unless someone can provide more proof.

To address the Skull Kid in TP, I suggest he stays on the Skull Kid Race article. He should then be put under a section called Notable Members, this could also include a small bit of info about the OoT Skull Kid that you give the Mask, and some info about the MM Skull Kid, with a link to the main article.

Also, Darth, please don't be so rude to add tl;dr to a person who has a different opinion then your own. This is generally unnecessary and is only negative input. You clearly read over Kyten's addition, even though it contained just as much if not more information. ---Pixel TC 19:54, 18 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Um, the Skull Kid in OoT is confirmed to be the one in MM. The MM one even mentions that Link reminds him of "that fairy kid that taught him the song in the woods". So yeah, they're the same character. --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 23:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That is the tease of information I was referring to... I'm generally neutral on the idea, so if that is enough information to go by, so be it. We might want some other opinions on this as well, specially if the split is going to be approved. ---Pixel TC 00:29, 20 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Can we use a Support/Oppose system for this decision, please? --I'm just a plain ol' Goron...Darth Nightmaricus (talk) 22:34, 22 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, this is meant to be passed via consensus, not vote. I wouldn't dismiss the discussion yet though. - TonyT S C 23:34, 22 May 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hyrule Warriors Legends Puppets

Latest comment: 8 October 20152 comments2 people in discussion

On the official HWL site it has updated to show Phantom Ganon and Skull Kid. Interesting thing to note, one new screenshot shows the skull kid attacking enemies with the Puppet that the Skull Kid from Twilight Princess has. the screenshot shows hes even playing the Ocarina while the puppet is attacking, similarly to how the skull kid in TP uses his trumpet. I know this game isnt considered canon by the fandom at large, but I thought it was a bit of interesting info and wanted to share it.
Ixbran (talk) 10:52, 8 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That info, along with the rest of his moveset, should be added to the HW series section of the Skull Kid page. - Chuck * (Talk) 20:26, 8 October 2015 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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