Talk:Volvagia: Difference between revisions
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isn't there any pictures of the actual fight with volgera instead of artwork Zanramon | isn't there any pictures of the actual fight with volgera instead of artwork Zanramon | ||
I have to admit that I don't believe the manga, but kind of wish it were true. I wish link were from Calatia, and would like to believe that majora was killed by a musician...but i really don't think its true.--[[User:Eponasowner|Claire]] 13:38, 1 January 2008 (EST) | I have to admit that I don't believe the manga, but kind of wish it were true. I wish link were from Calatia, and would like to believe that majora was killed by a musician...but i really don't think its true.--[[User:Eponasowner@legacy41958113|Claire]] 13:38, 1 January 2008 (EST) | ||
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Think we should merge this article with the Volvagia one? | Think we should merge this article with the Volvagia one? | ||
:As far as I'm concerned, they're still completely separate entities. Although the name-link is a compelling one, it doesn't prove that they are one and the same. Also, if they were to merge, the title would have to be either Barubajia or Varubajia, which wouldn't sit well with me. Anyone else's thoughts?--[[User: | :As far as I'm concerned, they're still completely separate entities. Although the name-link is a compelling one, it doesn't prove that they are one and the same. Also, if they were to merge, the title would have to be either Barubajia or Varubajia, which wouldn't sit well with me. Anyone else's thoughts?--[[User:Adam660@legacy41957735|Adam]] 15:43, 19 November 2007 (EST) | ||
::...Japanese does not have the sound "V". They have exactly the same japanese name - Barubajia. This has been translated in America most recently to Volvagia, and was corrected as such for the re-release of TAoL. They are both serpentine lava dragons. | ::...Japanese does not have the sound "V". They have exactly the same japanese name - Barubajia. This has been translated in America most recently to Volvagia, and was corrected as such for the re-release of TAoL. They are both serpentine lava dragons. | ||
::What more do you need?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 15:50, 19 November 2007 (EST) | ::What more do you need?[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 15:50, 19 November 2007 (EST) | ||
:::Someone else's view on it. I'm not the arbiter of all that's right, nor would I claim to be so. But nor are you. Consensus is needed. --[[User: | :::Someone else's view on it. I'm not the arbiter of all that's right, nor would I claim to be so. But nor are you. Consensus is needed. --[[User:Adam660@legacy41957735|Adam]] 16:44, 19 November 2007 (EST) | ||
I'm pro merge and having the article named Volvagia (as "Barba" obviously is a less correct translation (unless one would look at the number of letters)). I was already thinking of suggesting that when adding the name-comparision parts. But before I support such a merge, I'd like to know where I can find prove of the renaming, KrytenKoro. Where is the renaming of Barba written/stated. [[User:IfIHaveTo|IfIHaveTo]] 06:42, 20 November 2007 (EST) | I'm pro merge and having the article named Volvagia (as "Barba" obviously is a less correct translation (unless one would look at the number of letters)). I was already thinking of suggesting that when adding the name-comparision parts. But before I support such a merge, I'd like to know where I can find prove of the renaming, KrytenKoro. Where is the renaming of Barba written/stated. [[User:IfIHaveTo@legacy41958084|IfIHaveTo]] 06:42, 20 November 2007 (EST) | ||
::Pro-merge here, I think their the same, why have two different articles?--[[User:Kasei|Kasei]] 01:05, 1 January 2009 (UTC) | ::Pro-merge here, I think their the same, why have two different articles?--[[User:Kasei|Kasei]] 01:05, 1 January 2009 (UTC) | ||
:::Does anyone know how to get up the 'merge' templates? Doing that on this article and Volvagia's would let people know it's under debate... but I can't remember how to do it, nor does the help section help AT ALL. -_-; [[User:Dinosaur bob|Dinosaur bob]] 00:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC) | :::Does anyone know how to get up the 'merge' templates? Doing that on this article and Volvagia's would let people know it's under debate... but I can't remember how to do it, nor does the help section help AT ALL. -_-; [[User:Dinosaur bob|Dinosaur bob]] 00:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC) | ||
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::Another pro-merge. Different way of writing their names, same boss. And like KrytenKoro mentioned, its name has been corrected for the re-release of TAoL, so...why not merge them? [[User:Dany36|Dany36]] 01:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC) | ::Another pro-merge. Different way of writing their names, same boss. And like KrytenKoro mentioned, its name has been corrected for the re-release of TAoL, so...why not merge them? [[User:Dany36|Dany36]] 01:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC) | ||
::: Merge these. I never even knew this boss by the name Barba. It has always been Volvagia. --[[User: | ::: Merge these. I never even knew this boss by the name Barba. It has always been Volvagia. --[[User:Yumil1988|Yumil]] 17:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC) | ||
::::Well, so far it looks like we're unanimously pro-merge. Anyone know how to make it so? *coughnevermergedanarticlebeforecough* [[User:Dinosaur bob|Dinosaur bob]] 19:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC) | ::::Well, so far it looks like we're unanimously pro-merge. Anyone know how to make it so? *coughnevermergedanarticlebeforecough* [[User:Dinosaur bob|Dinosaur bob]] 19:59, 12 August 2009 (UTC) | ||
The merge is done, and since few users are aware of how to get to a redirect page discussion, I figured to bring the discussion here. As there have been questions on why these two pages were merged. On a side note, I want to say that we should be cautious about merging pages based on their Japanese names. This is an English language wiki. But I'm not against this nor Hiploop/Helmasaur being merged as the enemies are overall the same. {{:User: | The merge is done, and since few users are aware of how to get to a redirect page discussion, I figured to bring the discussion here. As there have been questions on why these two pages were merged. On a side note, I want to say that we should be cautious about merging pages based on their Japanese names. This is an English language wiki. But I'm not against this nor Hiploop/Helmasaur being merged as the enemies are overall the same. {{:User:Axiomist1875@legacy41958496/sig}} 03:33, 21 August 2009 (UTC) | ||
I'm bringing this discussion back up because ultimately the merging of these articles is unjustified. The merge was based off the similarities in appearance and the same Japanese name. While of course on a normal basis I'd say that's sufficiency evidence, however our current policy is that then English text is canon over the Japanese text, seeing as it is an English wiki. So I think the two articles should be unmerged, otherwise a change in policy is in order.{{:User: | I'm bringing this discussion back up because ultimately the merging of these articles is unjustified. The merge was based off the similarities in appearance and the same Japanese name. While of course on a normal basis I'd say that's sufficiency evidence, however our current policy is that then English text is canon over the Japanese text, seeing as it is an English wiki. So I think the two articles should be unmerged, otherwise a change in policy is in order.{{:User:Steven2113@legacy41958623/sig}} 22:35, 14 March 2010 (UTC) | ||
:I would like to bring up the merge again because of the similarities and the same ''exact'' name in Japanese. What I don't get is that this also befell Arrgus when it was split into Arrgus and "Wart" which was its Japanese name to beging with. --[[User:Hero of Termina|Hero of Termina]] ([[User talk:Hero of Termina|talk]]) 01:15, 25 June 2016 (UTC) | :I would like to bring up the merge again because of the similarities and the same ''exact'' name in Japanese. What I don't get is that this also befell Arrgus when it was split into Arrgus and "Wart" which was its Japanese name to beging with. --[[User:Hero of Termina|Hero of Termina]] ([[User talk:Hero of Termina|talk]]) 01:15, 25 June 2016 (UTC) | ||
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::We go with the English canon, so if they have different names, then they should have different pages. {{:User:Chuck/sig}} 03:31, 25 June 2016 (UTC) | ::We go with the English canon, so if they have different names, then they should have different pages. {{:User:Chuck/sig}} 03:31, 25 June 2016 (UTC) | ||
:::Actually, they don't have the same name. I believe that was a bit of a lie from Dinosaur bob. They have ''similar'' names, but they're not the same. Still, English canon trumps Japanese nomenclature. {{:User: | :::Actually, they don't have the same name. I believe that was a bit of a lie from Dinosaur bob. They have ''similar'' names, but they're not the same. Still, English canon trumps Japanese nomenclature. {{:User:TriforceTony/sig}} 04:17, 26 June 2016 (UTC) | ||
::::Except English canon does dictate here, according to the Nintendo Power Collector's Edition Player's Guide, the most recent release of Zelda II, outside of the VC. The name they refer to both the OoT Dragon and the AoL Dragon is the same: Volvagia. --[[User:Hero of Termina|Hero of Termina]] ([[User talk:Hero of Termina|talk]]) 20:08, 15 July 2016 (UTC) | ::::Except English canon does dictate here, according to the Nintendo Power Collector's Edition Player's Guide, the most recent release of Zelda II, outside of the VC. The name they refer to both the OoT Dragon and the AoL Dragon is the same: Volvagia. --[[User:Hero of Termina|Hero of Termina]] ([[User talk:Hero of Termina|talk]]) 20:08, 15 July 2016 (UTC) | ||
:::::Please provide a detailed source. {{:User: | :::::Please provide a detailed source. {{:User:TriforceTony/sig}} 16:00, 16 July 2016 (UTC) | ||
::::::New account same person because of the server switch, but I did find concrete evidence in the Encyclopedia: "In some places, Barba is called Volvagia" <ref>{{Cite Book|book= E|publisher= Dark Horse Comics|page= 146}}</ref>--[[User:Mysterii bousuguru|Mysterii bousuguru]] ([[User talk:Mysterii bousuguru|talk]]) 01:34, 11 July 2018 (UTC) | |||
:Hey, welcome back. So a few things have arisen since this discussion last took place, namely that we've developed a policy regarding bosses who are the same species but have different names. Effectively, the policy is that bosses like this (and Wart/Arrghus, Ganon/Calamity Ganon, etc.) should remain split. | |||
:However, it's definitely worth noting that they are in fact the same creature on both pages. Though page 16 in the hardback book is about Princess Zelda, so I'm not sure where you meant to point people for that quote. [[User:TriforceTony|TriforceTony]] ([[User talk:TriforceTony|talk]]) 18:21, 11 July 2018 (UTC) | |||
::That was a typo, I meant to type page 146. --[[User:Mysterii bousuguru|Mysterii bousuguru]] ([[User talk:Mysterii bousuguru|talk]]) 20:48, 11 July 2018 (UTC) | |||
:::As I did 15(!) years ago, I disagree with the split in the strongest terms. They have the same Japanese name, the English name in AoL was an oversimiplification that was fixed in the Collector's Edition NP guide. According to the Encyclopedia, they are the same creature as well. If the policy is to split anything whose name has been romanized in different ways, then Nightmare Key and Dynalfos remaining merged would make little sense -- although in reality they ''do'' make sense because they are obviously covering the same topic, and separating them for pedantic reasons is obstructive to clarity and the usefulness of the wiki. I'm probably sounding like a broken record at this point, but I oppose the split policy the wiki has developed over the intervening years on a fundamental level, and I strongly prefer the method we had back when I was a regular editor, where such decisions were based on what was best for the reader and the content, rather than following a rote algorithm.{{SUBST:KrytenKoroSig}} 14:05, 18 May 2022 (UTC) | |||
==Japanese Boss Title== | ==Japanese Boss Title== | ||
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[[User:Pharap|Pharap]] 16:34, 12 February 2012 (EST) | [[User:Pharap|Pharap]] 16:34, 12 February 2012 (EST) | ||
:You're confusing a u in phonetic respell for making an "oo" sound. The phonetic spelling of Volvagia, vɒl ˈvʌ dʒiː ɑː, ''taken from the Japanese pronunciation'' (following the [[Zelda Wiki:Pronunciation Guide|IPA respell pronunciation key]]) is more-or-less properly respelled as vol-VU-gee-ah. ヴァルバジア would roughly translate (based on word stress) to vɑ ruː bʌ dʒi ʌ, which would then, phonetically, read as Vah-roo-bu-gee-u. Now, in English, this would instead read as it's currently written, vɒl ˈvʌ dʒiː ɑː (バ produces the ʌ sound in context, resulting in the "u"). It's confusing, but there really is no error. {{:User: | :You're confusing a u in phonetic respell for making an "oo" sound. The phonetic spelling of Volvagia, vɒl ˈvʌ dʒiː ɑː, ''taken from the Japanese pronunciation'' (following the [[Zelda Wiki:Pronunciation Guide|IPA respell pronunciation key]]) is more-or-less properly respelled as vol-VU-gee-ah. ヴァルバジア would roughly translate (based on word stress) to vɑ ruː bʌ dʒi ʌ, which would then, phonetically, read as Vah-roo-bu-gee-u. Now, in English, this would instead read as it's currently written, vɒl ˈvʌ dʒiː ɑː (バ produces the ʌ sound in context, resulting in the "u"). It's confusing, but there really is no error. {{:User:TriforceTony/sig}} 17:20, 12 February 2012 (EST) | ||
::That...doesn't sound right. -a kana are usually pronounced with an /ɑː/, not a /ʌ/. If you search バギア[http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C WWWJDIC], it even has a sound file so that you can hear it; the "vag" is pronounced nearly like "dog", not "dug".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 11:22, 13 February 2012 (EST) | ::That...doesn't sound right. -a kana are usually pronounced with an /ɑː/, not a /ʌ/. If you search バギア[http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C WWWJDIC], it even has a sound file so that you can hear it; the "vag" is pronounced nearly like "dog", not "dug".[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 11:22, 13 February 2012 (EST) | ||
::: Firstly, after checking the bestiary, they have it written as varubajia, which would be ヴァルバジア, not ヴァルバギア. I'm surprised I didn't realise sooner, but even more surprised nobody else did. Anyway, best comparison, ギア(gi-a) is the way the Japanese pronounce gear, so if you take that logic and use the a from gi-a and apply it to the other a sounds in varubajia then it makes sense to use and an and not a u. Also to note, the Japanese do not have a u sound as in bug or bus, nor does their a sound sound like such. Whichever way you look at it, the u sound doesn't make sense. [[User:Pharap|Pharap]] 15:29, 13 February 2012 (EST) | ::: Firstly, after checking the bestiary, they have it written as varubajia, which would be ヴァルバジア, not ヴァルバギア. I'm surprised I didn't realise sooner, but even more surprised nobody else did. Anyway, best comparison, ギア(gi-a) is the way the Japanese pronounce gear, so if you take that logic and use the a from gi-a and apply it to the other a sounds in varubajia then it makes sense to use and an and not a u. Also to note, the Japanese do not have a u sound as in bug or bus, nor does their a sound sound like such. Whichever way you look at it, the u sound doesn't make sense. [[User:Pharap|Pharap]] 15:29, 13 February 2012 (EST) | ||
::::@KrytenKoro: This is where word stress comes into play. A person reading ヴァルバギア wouldn't place the same amount of stress on the バ as the ヴァ (whereas バジア alone would indeed pronounce the /ɑː/ sound, reading as /bɑː dʒiː ɑː/. Without the forced stress, the "a" sounds more akin to a light ʌ (ə) sound (Google Translate has a feature that reads out the Katakana, [http://translate.google.com/#ja|en|%E3%83%B4%E3%82%A1%E3%83%AB%E3%83%90%E3%82%B8%E3%82%A2 listen for yourself]). {{:User: | ::::@KrytenKoro: This is where word stress comes into play. A person reading ヴァルバギア wouldn't place the same amount of stress on the バ as the ヴァ (whereas バジア alone would indeed pronounce the /ɑː/ sound, reading as /bɑː dʒiː ɑː/. Without the forced stress, the "a" sounds more akin to a light ʌ (ə) sound (Google Translate has a feature that reads out the Katakana, [http://translate.google.com/#ja|en|%E3%83%B4%E3%82%A1%E3%83%AB%E3%83%90%E3%82%B8%E3%82%A2 listen for yourself]). {{:User:TriforceTony/sig}} 20:40, 13 February 2012 (EST) | ||
::::: Not even stress would change the reading of an a into a u. So I'm saying we change the u back into an a. Who agrees, who disagrees? If you type ヴァルバジア into google translate, it does actually show there are no U sounds. Admittedly the English version uses Vol instead of Val, making it slightly different, but the point is that The va in volvagia should remain va and not vu. [[User:Pharap|Pharap]] 20:57, 13 February 2012 (EST) | ::::: Not even stress would change the reading of an a into a u. So I'm saying we change the u back into an a. Who agrees, who disagrees? If you type ヴァルバジア into google translate, it does actually show there are no U sounds. Admittedly the English version uses Vol instead of Val, making it slightly different, but the point is that The va in volvagia should remain va and not vu. [[User:Pharap|Pharap]] 20:57, 13 February 2012 (EST) | ||
:Firstly, I suggest you familiarize yourself with our [[Help:Editing Etiquette|etiquette standards]], as you were behaving rudely (prior to revising your post). Each individual editor brings their own level of expertise, so you should excuse any errors they may make. Remember: we're only human. | :Firstly, I suggest you familiarize yourself with our [[Help:Editing Etiquette|etiquette standards]], as you were behaving rudely (prior to revising your post). Each individual editor brings their own level of expertise, so you should excuse any errors they may make. Remember: we're only human. | ||
:Secondly, your point is wrong as Volvagia's Japanese name is indeed {{Romanize|ヴァルバジア|Varubajia}}. Now for your recent revision of your argument, I believe you're still fixed on the thought that the "u" has anything to do with how the Katakana is written. I'm strictly speaking of how the word stress affects how it sounds once enunciated. If you could link to a video of a fluent Japanese speaker proving otherwise, then I would reconsider. In any case, I still disagree with you, as I believe my point still stands. {{:User: | :Secondly, your point is wrong as Volvagia's Japanese name is indeed {{Romanize|ヴァルバジア|Varubajia}}. Now for your recent revision of your argument, I believe you're still fixed on the thought that the "u" has anything to do with how the Katakana is written. I'm strictly speaking of how the word stress affects how it sounds once enunciated. If you could link to a video of a fluent Japanese speaker proving otherwise, then I would reconsider. In any case, I still disagree with you, as I believe my point still stands. {{:User:TriforceTony/sig}} 00:17, 14 February 2012 (EST) | ||
:: Yes, I revised my post for several reasons, and I was being rude to myself as well since I implied that I also had been stupid enough to not notice that I had been using what I believed to be the wrong Katakana. Also, if you look at the revision summary, it states that I changed it because I saw that what I had put about the first two katakana was wrong and thus the comment was irrelevant. | :: Yes, I revised my post for several reasons, and I was being rude to myself as well since I implied that I also had been stupid enough to not notice that I had been using what I believed to be the wrong Katakana. Also, if you look at the revision summary, it states that I changed it because I saw that what I had put about the first two katakana was wrong and thus the comment was irrelevant. | ||
:: I found a video of a Japanese person pronouncing volvagia, shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1e45--YqCU at 36 seconds the player clearly reads the boss's name, ヴァルバジア. If you listen closely, both A sounds are pronounced the same way, as the short A in Japanese, not like an uh sound. | :: I found a video of a Japanese person pronouncing volvagia, shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1e45--YqCU at 36 seconds the player clearly reads the boss's name, ヴァルバジア. If you listen closely, both A sounds are pronounced the same way, as the short A in Japanese, not like an uh sound. | ||
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::Right. That's why I think we should ask someone who has studied Japanese linguistics professionally, rather than for us to keep basically philosophizing about it when none of us our linguists; we're just anime fans, or studied Nihongo in school.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 15:50, 22 February 2012 (EST) | ::Right. That's why I think we should ask someone who has studied Japanese linguistics professionally, rather than for us to keep basically philosophizing about it when none of us our linguists; we're just anime fans, or studied Nihongo in school.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 15:50, 22 February 2012 (EST) | ||
:::Soooo...should I just put the ɑː back so that you guys will engage in this conversation? It's been over a month.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 13:27, 24 March 2012 (EDT) | :::Soooo...should I just put the ɑː back so that you guys will engage in this conversation? It's been over a month.[[User:KrytenKoro|KrytenKoro]] 13:27, 24 March 2012 (EDT) | ||
==Breath of the Wild== | |||
While there is no confirmation, and this is not a request for editing, I thought I'd give a heads up that the latest Japanese trailer showed a field boss with an utterly massive field boss resembling Volvagia. Again, just a heads up, so people can be looking out for any official confirmation.[[User:Mosaica@legacy41973553|Mosaica]] ([[User talk:Mosaica@legacy41973553|talk]]) 23:07, 20 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
:Although the boss may resemble Volvagia, it does not mean that the boss is in fact Volvagia unless it is explicitly named as such. It should not be added to this page unless it does have that name. {{:User:Midoro/sig}} 23:09, 20 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
:: I know, that's what I was trying to say. I guess I didn't word it very well. [[User:Mosaica@legacy41973553|Mosaica]] ([[User talk:Mosaica@legacy41973553|talk]]) 23:40, 20 February 2017 (UTC) | |||
